Car is running!! but.. new problems arise. Inj Lag times found! NB owners look! - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


E-Manage Post your questions about greddy e-manage installation and tuning here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-13-2007, 07:48 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 1,057
Total Cats: 1
Default Car is running!! but.. new problems arise. Inj Lag times found! Unit Faulty?

ok i finally got the car to run, and i did a little test drive.

MAP Setting, EMU: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N8ZN2KXX
Datalog: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LGEL13QU

EDIT: WTF NEW PROBLEM ><
ok so i drove it, and floored it a couple of times to get the A/F ratio correct. worked fine. so drove it around even more, still fine. Then i take my friend along a couple of hours later so he can watch the datalog for me, and all of a sudden, the car loses power, instantly. the computer throws an error, and the active sign is flashing red rapidly, stating that the ignition CH-1 was incorrect or something, same with the CH-2 a little bit later. the car could barely hold an idle, and was running rich. we shut the car down, let it cool a bit (about 5 minutes) and fired it right up, acted like normal again. but then driving again, suddenly loses power again. wtf? same errors were thrown.

Could i have a faulty EMU?? it seems like my emanage itself is bad.
any reason for this?

i also notice my EMU is reasonably hot.. actually very hot to the touch after some driving. its holdable, but not for long. does not seem normal to me.

i will have a talk with greddy about this to see what they say.

My car is a 1999 NB miata, US-spec

im using 550cc RC injectors. i have set the injectors to 550 in the I/J compensation, but have gotten horrible idling and A/F ratio was also measured at a horrible 11.0-12.0 varying. I experimented, upping the injector sizes on the compensation and found the optimal setting at 620cc, which doesn't surprise me as the NB's fuel pressure is a general 60psi at the fuel rail. The original NB's injectors settings (before setting) were set at 280cc, but by various people, has been measured at 230cc - 239cc (not sure, but around there) at 43.5 psi at the fuel rail. using a conversion chart, the 239cc are actually rated at 279cc at 60psi, which makes sense for the EMU's default setting on the injectors.

i have yet to try to set the injector settings to play around with, see if they will set right at 239cc and properly adjust the "after" setting to 550cc.

Hot start issue: i have no hot starting issues whatsoever. dont know why people are experiencing this.

New found info:
I think i got the correct lag time settings on the NB models. On 1999 models, the lag injector time seems to be set at 0.74 ms. I emailed RC injectors to get the lag time on their injectors, and have been told they are generally 1.3ms. I set the injector settings at 1.22 because setting them at 1.3 gave me a somewhat strange idle, not very consistent. at 1.22, the idle was completely flat and consistent.

now, onto the problems:

I have hesitation and bucking on WOT, but if i ease the pedal and let boost build, there is no hesitation or bucking. fueling problem? could it be my injector settings are also wrong? not sure!

the greddy MAP sensor is reading completely wrong! My idle is at a steady -20 vac, but the greddy sensor reads at -8.9 PSI?
Could it be damaged or faulty?

Last but not least, A/F problems. on acceleration from a stop, the A/F ratio drops to around 10.5 - 11.2... is this normal? on deceleration (engine braking) the A/F completely drop to lean and the gauge reads --.- is this normal as well?

i will get my settings and logs posted later tonight when i have time to give a real good chance to drive it in the evening.

Last edited by Marc D; 09-16-2007 at 03:41 AM.
Marc D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 08:47 PM   #2
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: N/A
Posts: 360
Total Cats: 0
Default

Well for the hesitation i'd imagine you just have to play with the Accel IJ map some and the going full lean on decel is normal...the computer cuts all fuel when you coast in gear.

Where you able to get the actual ignition timing to show?
mikeflys1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 09:05 PM   #3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 1,057
Total Cats: 1
Default

actual timing isnt shown, because of an error the EMU throws with sending the wrong voltage to the CrankAS and CamAS. theres a write up about it on the yahoo groups. there was a way to fix it, and i tried my best with my horrible electrical skills, but it never worked. something went wrong on it for sure, but i dont know what. it required the use of OP-AMPs to get it fixed, but mine never worked properly, so i just cut the wires. and run off the RPM signal. i will play around with the accel settings tonight,

thanks for the reply.
Marc D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 04:00 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 49
Total Cats: 0
Default lag time

I'm running 550cc RX-7 Low imp injectors lag time now is 0. Any idea's what lag time I should use? Same as the RC's? (1.22?)
MX5Kuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 05:00 PM   #5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 1,057
Total Cats: 1
Default

i read somewhere that the lag times on RX-7 injectors are around 0.65-0.75 as well. i suggest you search around
Marc D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 07:27 PM   #6
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,328
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

I can't seem to access the files you uploaded, but let's address a couple of other issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy88000 View Post
the greddy MAP sensor is reading completely wrong! My idle is at a steady -20 vac, but the greddy sensor reads at -8.9 PSI?
This sounds perfectly normal to me. Most US-spec boost/vac gauges read boost in PSI, but vacuum in inches of mercury (in Hg). The EMU on the other hand does not switch scales between vacuum and boost. If you have it set to read PSI relative, then vacuum will be indicated as negative PSI (translated as PSI below atmo, which is assumed to be 14.7 PSI at sea level)

20"Hg converts to about -9.8 PSI, which is just about exactly what my engine pulls at warm idle (varies between -9.5 and -10.) -8.9 PSI is about 18 inches, so perhaps your gauge is just slightly off.

Quote:
Last but not least, A/F problems. on acceleration from a stop, the A/F ratio drops to around 10.5 - 11.2... is this normal? on deceleration (engine braking) the A/F completely drop to lean and the gauge reads --.- is this normal as well?
Depends on how hard you're accelerating. When you go easy on the pedal, you should be seeing the mixture vary between maybe 14.5:1 and 15.5:1 (ballpark numbers.) Once you cross a certain load threshold, the stock ECU goes open-loop and typically runs around 13:1.

If you are seeing 10:1 to 11:1 when accelerating lightly at low RPMs, then I would take a very hard look at the stock narrowband O2 sensor and its connection to the stock ECU.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 09:11 PM   #7
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,328
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

Ok, I finally managed to D/L those files. Dude, you gotta either find a better file host or learn how to use attachments. I don't need to be having popups for **** appear on my PC at work.


A few things immediately jump out at me. First, take a look at your A/F Target map:


You've got the EMU trying to autotune in non-boosted cells. That's bad, since the ECU is definitely going to be running closed-loop in this area, making minute adjustments to the fuel as it swings back and forth across stoich, and now you've got the EMU fighting it as it tries to make its own adjustments as well. Change all these cells to "-". While you're at it, fill in all those blank cells at 0.0 and below, and in general try to smooth the map out. Use the four-corners interpolate tool. Get rid of that jump from 13.0 directly to 11.5 at 2500.



Next, onto the I/J 1 map:


There should not be any correction in the non-boosted cells. I suspect that some of this is a result of the autotune. You've got +97 at 3,000 at -11.6, and then -80 one cell down at -8.7? Zero those bitches out.



Now, I'm a bit confused about your Parameters setup. Neither Airflow Output nor Airflow Adjustment were selected when I opened up the .EM2, but both of them seem to contain data, and it looks bogus to me. Go to Parameters -> Map Select. Click the Airflow Adjustment Map button. Then open the airflow adjustment map and zero it all out. You've got a hotwire, so you don't need that *****. It's not hurting anything right now, but it may down the road. (I can see from your log that Airflow In and Out are tracking properly)


What's connected to the Aux Output? Off at 500-1000, and On at 1500+? That's a damned strange map. Also, try ditching the Idle Adjustment. The stock ECU can worry about the idle, don't make the EMU fight it.


BTW- those injectors are *waaaaaaay* too big for this car. The few places I see where your A/FR is even close to OK (for example, around 39 seconds at ~3300 RPM) you're getting something like 20% input, 4% output duty cycle on the injectors. If you're planning to shoot for 400 RWHP on E-85 then maybe...
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2007, 09:40 PM   #8
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: N/A
Posts: 360
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy88000 View Post
actual timing isnt shown, because of an error the EMU throws with sending the wrong voltage to the CrankAS and CamAS. theres a write up about it on the yahoo groups. there was a way to fix it, and i tried my best with my horrible electrical skills, but it never worked. something went wrong on it for sure, but i dont know what. it required the use of OP-AMPs to get it fixed, but mine never worked properly, so i just cut the wires. and run off the RPM signal. i will play around with the accel settings tonight,

thanks for the reply.
Yea i read about that fix too....i think im just gonna take the distributor off my escort gt engine, install that and splice the signal into the emu.

Last edited by mikeflys1; 09-14-2007 at 10:27 PM.
mikeflys1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 02:47 AM   #9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 1,057
Total Cats: 1
Default

thanks joe, ill try out what you told me.

as for the injector settings, i corrected them there because even when i set the Injectors settings correctly, my car still idled extremely rich. i will see what i can do to smooth out those A/F ratios. thanks for the input.

i will see what i can do, if the injectors really start to create problems, ill ditch them and try to find some one that are PNP and lower, like RX-7 N/A injectors. thanks again.
Marc D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 05:51 AM   #10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 1,057
Total Cats: 1
Default

new logs. still tons of problems.

Log with recommended settings. This log is at idle with zeroing out the A/F and injector settings.
http://www.mediafire.com/?6tjdpso0xxj
i uploaded to another file hosting service, hopefully free of all that crap

The car will not even idle properly. A/F is way below in the 10.1 range. you can see the data logs as well.

I changed it back to the settings i had before without the A/F there and it idled ok. it still wasnt consistent, nor was it (IMO) drivable for long periods of time. My gas mileage obviously is crap right now, and running it more than what is happening now will only further damage the engine it seems.

after changing the logs, i have the logs set up for a stop and go datalogging session. as you can see as well, the A/F drop below 11.3, then slowly raises up, but still stays rich.
http://www.mediafire.com/?al40onlr5r3

my unit MUST be faulty. i dont even know why my EMU wont properly compensate for the injectors, even if i do zero them out, leaving me have to manually adjust the damn thing

oh, the AUX output is for the o2 clamp i made. i had to activate it there to see if forcing it to clamp would allow me to adjust the injectors for just a steady idle and drivability out of boost. thats why i had to to A/F in the target map because the damn unit wont correct the injectors properly. i doubt its just because of its "size."

im about to rip the damn thing out and get rid of it for an MSnS system.

Last edited by Marc D; 09-15-2007 at 10:11 PM.
Marc D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 04:23 AM   #11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 1,057
Total Cats: 1
Default

any help?

i expect a call from greddy soon, ill follow up monday.
Marc D is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
91 1.6l turbo complete part out. Tony the Tiger Miata parts for sale/trade 63 12-29-2016 03:23 AM
Turbo 1995 Miata Low mileage Clean Tekel Cars for sale/trade 29 02-05-2016 05:16 PM
Ms2e 99-00 ac control Dobzeh MEGAsquirt 23 09-15-2015 05:49 PM
Mystery Engine Trouble. Halp, mt.net! vehicular General Miata Chat 12 09-14-2015 04:17 PM
First to get it out of the way main Meet and Greet 1 09-05-2015 01:39 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 PM.