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Old 02-28-2008, 10:01 AM   #1
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Default E-manage basics for the average joe

Ok, just a few questions. I've researched doing a turbo for over a year off and on and think I'm actually going to finally do it. I'll be buying a used greddy kit and staying really simple for a bit as the initial cost is all I want to pay for at this time. So no IC, 5 psi, I'll run the vortech fmu for now, just a nice bump in power.

BUT... Obviously we all know that won't stay that way forever, and I know I'd like to go with the emb as long as it can do what I need. Now here's where everything gets (from an outsider's point of view) quite confusing. Reading about MAF and MAP and inputs and outputs and etc. etc. can get confusing when you've never tuned a damn thing in your life and are trying to research on the internet...

Basically, I need something simple, not 500 numbers on a grid that I can't understand. If I get the 4 bar pressure sensor that allows me to tune the timing and the injectors/fuel according to boost right? That seems much simpler than tuning not according to psi...
It seems like doing the basics shouldn't be hard for 7 or 8 psi.. set wastegate for that boost. Check. Then put together a basic timing map according to boost - something like retard 1 degree per 1 psi, max of 6 or 7 degrees retard. Timing is done. Check.
Then, need to buy a wideband and I can do a fuel map in relation to boost level right? But it would seem that should be tied into rpms in a way too...

Is there anything else that needs to be tuned when you buy and hook up the emb?
So far, that's the EMB plus injector harness plus timing harness plus 4 bar MAP sensor and the harness for it.
Set PSI, Set timing map to retard according to boost, set fuel map according to boost for 14:1 idle/12:1 wot (verified by watching wideband during pull)

And the 4 bar MAP sensor allows me to run no MAF? Or would that only be if I had a EMU?

Thanks for putting up with beginner's questions.

-Ryan
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:28 AM   #2
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EMU can run without a MAF, EMB requires one.


https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2572
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:34 AM   #3
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EM-B = MAF/AFM all the time. You can't remove it, unless you get EM-U

With the MAP sensor, whether it's the 4-bar greddy sensor, or one of the GM ones, you can tune by pressure. If you are using the GM/motorola sensor, you are limited to using the voltages on the screen rather than actual PSI, but that's OK, provided you know what those voltages mean.

Personally, I'm using a GM sensor, and it works OK... for upto about 12ish PSI (that's where you get the maximum voltage on a 2 bar sensor).

Since the EMs are piggy backs (smarter than say a thing like a PC, PC Pro, voodoo) you can adjust the maps, and timing, but idle is still controlled with the stock ecu. With an EM-B the signal is a modified air flow signal, so that's why you are limited to "how" big injectors you can run. It's normally around the 330ish range to get them to idle well. If you want more injector, and EM-U, or stepping up to a MS is a better idea. If you are going to get rid of the AFPR (vortec) then you'll need to get bigger injectors on it... since the stock 205's for 1.6s or 230's for 1.8 M1s will be out of injector @ 7ish PSI. I found that with the PC in my car, the stock 230's were hitting 100% duty cycle... Once I upgraded to the EM-B, I soon put in a set of 305's since I was running on the edge of the stock injectors.

A WB is of value regardless of what you are doing, since it will help you tune in boost. That said, with an EM-B, you can't feed the signal into the EM-B to tune, unless you replace the stock O2 signal, or... run something like the Emanage Tools, which will let you put the WB signal on the AFM-II input to datalog against. (That means you can track the RPM, throttle, etc....).

Dave,
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:57 AM   #4
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To make life even more simple with the EMB, you can buy an Autotune from Olderguy. With the Vortech, you'll want an O2 clamp regardless. I messed around with tuning the EMB for a few years, but when I decided to go with a new turbo kit and bump the boost from 8-10 up to 12, I just didn't have the desire to go through the process again.
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:49 PM   #5
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The end goal is 8 psi.
I was originally thinking that when I added an e-manage and larger injectors I would then ditch the vortech FMU - But I've been reading about using both together.
I'm thinking to go with the base Greddy turbo kit @ 5psi, stock injectors.
Then, add an e-manage Blue, bigger injectors and drop the Vortech to a 8:1 disc, intercooler, wideband. Run 6 psi to get all this set up and familiarize myself with the EMB, and then go to 8 psi.

I THINK if my calculations are right, that w/ a 8:1 vortech fmu I can safely run 305cc supra injectors for 8 psi but that should put me at 114 psi fuel pressure which is kinda high... is there a better option?

Also, probably a dumbass question but is the EMB able to control how much the injectors open? So running a 305cc injector over a 265cc 1.8 injector won't cause the car to waste more gas, it just gives the injector more of a ceiling of capability?

-Ryan
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:15 PM   #6
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Probably have a little less fuel economy with the 305's.... I think mine's been sitting around the same as the 230's (stock + powercard).

You have to remember the stock ecu is still using the 305's for idle, cruise, etc... so it comes to how well it can adapt to the larger injectors. In boost your EMB should be adding fuel as required, but unfortunately, it doesn't "remove" fuel quite the same way as the EM-U, hence why you can't run stupid large injectors.

Dave,
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:31 PM   #7
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I've come to the conclusion that a megasquirt is the way to go. You can run a 550 cc injector with perfect fuel economy because it has complete control over the injector - at idle it can open the injector up just a miniscule amount so that it flows just as much as your 205 stock injector would flow at stock, or it can open up to 80% duty cycle at full boost and flow enough fuel at stock fuel pressure to support a lot of HP...

-Ryan
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