Emissions - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


ECUs and Tuning Discuss Engine Management, Tuning, & Programming

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-11-2014, 04:40 PM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default Emissions

How do you guys pass emissions with aftermarket engine management on obd2 vehicles. Me and my brothers are working on a project car (1999 miata) and cant decide what engine management to use because going back to stock(will be a forced induction car so will require more than just swapping the ecu back) just to pass emissions is sort of a pain in the rear. We wanna use megasquirt but ive heard of a few people running a dsm ecu with dsmlink and if we can do that and still be able to pass readiness monitors that would be cool.

Last edited by SnailSpeed; 01-12-2014 at 02:22 AM.
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 04:58 PM   #2
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,192
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

Unplugging 3 connectors and plugging them back in is a pain in the rear?
If that's a pain, just don't modify cars at all. Ever.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 05:26 PM   #3
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Unplugging 3 connectors and plugging them back in is a pain in the rear?
If that's a pain, just don't modify cars at all. Ever.
lets see, the car will be running 750cc injectors, egr delete, maf delete for speed density, and all other supporting mods, so if you are referring to plugging the stock ecu back in then that wont work because for one the car wont even run, for two if it even did it will trigger a whole bunch of cels which wont pass emissions. But thanks for the input mr. guru.
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 05:35 PM   #4
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,192
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailSpeed View Post
lets see, the car will be running 750cc injectors, egr delete, maf delete for speed density, and all other supporting mods, so if you are referring to plugging the stock ecu back in then that wont work because for one the car wont even run, for two if it even did it will trigger a whole bunch of cels which wont pass emissions. But thanks for the input mr. guru.
Next time you ask a stupid question or make a vague lazy post, consider what you're asking and what your post states.

You mentioned nothing of big injectors or anything else.

What you DID ask was specifically about the ecu swap, and I answered YOUR STUPID QUESTION SPECIFICALLY. As in, if you unplug the oem ecu, plug in a pnp ms and tune it, and many actually do just that, the whole ordeal of "swapping back to stock for emissions" takes all of 5 minutes to reverse. I have personally done that actually.

And I'm not even TOUCHING on the fact that you are ridiculously lazy and can search this topic and get many hits with clear answers, but you are too much of a self entitled dipsh!t n00b and think that everyone is mandated to spoon feed you or else.

You're welcome, fgt.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 07:12 PM   #5
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Onyxyth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Boyertown, PA
Posts: 719
Total Cats: 55
Default

Drive less than 5,000 miles
Onyxyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 07:36 PM   #6
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Next time you ask a stupid question or make a vague lazy post, consider what you're asking and what your post states.

You mentioned nothing of big injectors or anything else.

What you DID ask was specifically about the ecu swap, and I answered YOUR STUPID QUESTION SPECIFICALLY. As in, if you unplug the oem ecu, plug in a pnp ms and tune it, and many actually do just that, the whole ordeal of "swapping back to stock for emissions" takes all of 5 minutes to reverse. I have personally done that actually.

And I'm not even TOUCHING on the fact that you are ridiculously lazy and can search this topic and get many hits with clear answers, but you are too much of a self entitled dipsh!t n00b and think that everyone is mandated to spoon feed you or else.

You're welcome, fgt.
whoa there calm down, no reason for that attitude it wasn't a stupid question considering that this is the miataturbo forum maybe you are intelligent enough to piece together that it would be far from stock. So much attitude behind this wall of internet, why don't you come and talk to me face to face and we will see who the self entitled dipsh i t is. To the rest of you sane people, sorry this is going to be a boosted miata with aftermarket injectors, walbro 255lph, thinking of using an hx30 turbo but currently have an evo9 turbo, custom exhaust manifold and the rest of the exhaust, flying miata clutch, and more supporting mods. The goal is to have a vehicle that can pass washington state emmisions with the least amount of hassle. So how are you guys passing emissions with your turbo miata(obd2)?
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 07:45 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,119
Total Cats: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailSpeed View Post
whoa there calm down, no reason for that attitude it wasn't a stupid question considering that this is the miataturbo forum maybe you are intelligent enough to piece together that it would be far from stock. So much attitude behind this wall of internet, why don't you come and talk to me face to face and we will see who the self entitled dipsh i t is. To the rest of you sane people, sorry this is going to be a boosted miata with aftermarket injectors, walbro 255lph, thinking of using an hx30 turbo but currently have an evo9 turbo, custom exhaust manifold and the rest of the exhaust, flying miata clutch, and more supporting mods. The goal is to have a vehicle that can pass washington state emmisions with the least amount of hassle. So how are you guys passing emissions with your turbo miata?
By either not living in a shitty state that enforces emissions..... OR.... by not being lazy, and keeping all stock parts to spend 3 hours or so swapping back to pass the test, then another 3 or so reversing it that night.... Basically, you take 1 day off work, one that coincides with your scheduled appt for emissions testing. Either the night before, or the morning of, switch it all back to stock... Do the test, pass the test.... drive home, swap it all back to glory.... 1 day sacrificed out of 365 isnt much to ask in order to have a properly boosted and tuned miata... just my $0.2
supercooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 07:54 PM   #8
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supercooper View Post
By either not living in a shitty state that enforces emissions..... OR.... by not being lazy, and keeping all stock parts to spend 3 hours or so swapping back to pass the test, then another 3 or so reversing it that night.... Basically, you take 1 day off work, one that coincides with your scheduled appt for emissions testing. Either the night before, or the morning of, switch it all back to stock... Do the test, pass the test.... drive home, swap it all back to glory.... 1 day sacrificed out of 365 isnt much to ask in order to have a properly boosted and tuned miata... just my $0.2
Thanks. its not that i'm lazy its just that if you can pass emissions without having to go back to stock then why not do it? I am a subaru tuner and pass emissions with ridiculous setups on the stock ecu just because the stock ecu can be flash tuned so I have never had to go back to stock and was trying to do the same with the miata.
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 07:55 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,514
Total Cats: 142
Default

I always thought it was a cardinal sin to even ask this question on an open forum. No one here knows who you are or who's reading this. Besides that, it's classically one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.
good2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 07:59 PM   #10
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by good2go View Post
I always thought it was a cardinal sin to even ask this question on an open forum. No one here knows who you are or who's reading this. Besides that, it's classically one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.
lol, is it? if so let me know so I can rephrase my question
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 01:02 AM   #11
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,192
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailSpeed View Post
whoa there calm down, no reason for that attitude it wasn't a stupid question considering that this is the miataturbo forum maybe you are intelligent enough to piece together that it would be far from stock. So much attitude behind this wall of internet, why don't you come and talk to me face to face and we will see who the self entitled dipsh i t is. To the rest of you sane people, sorry this is going to be a boosted miata with aftermarket injectors, walbro 255lph, thinking of using an hx30 turbo but currently have an evo9 turbo, custom exhaust manifold and the rest of the exhaust, flying miata clutch, and more supporting mods. The goal is to have a vehicle that can pass washington state emmisions with the least amount of hassle. So how are you guys passing emissions with your turbo miata(obd2)?
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 01:06 AM   #12
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,192
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by good2go View Post
I always thought it was a cardinal sin to even ask this question on an open forum. No one here knows who you are or who's reading this. Besides that, it's classically one of those "if you have to ask..." questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailSpeed View Post
lol, is it? if so let me know so I can rephrase my question
if you have to ask...
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 02:18 AM   #13
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
if you have to ask...
Whats so funny? you don't know who i am and i bet you wouldn't give me that attitude if you spoke to me in person. Don't you have something better to do other than flagging negative props on every one of my posts? And me trying to pass emissions on an aftermarket ecu is no worse then you going back to stock and passing.
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 10:16 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,119
Total Cats: 33
Default

well, you CAN pass emission on an MS if you tune it properly... It has even been done without a cat before.... the REAL question is, does your state check to see if you have a stock ECU or not? do they plug in and check the number on your ECU
supercooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 11:18 AM   #15
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,325
Total Cats: 1,924
Default

All right, you guys- rinse the sand out of your vaginas. Vlad, I'm looking at you, sweetie.


There is not, so far as I am aware, anything like ROMRaider or DSMLink for the Miata platform. Consequently, setting up forced induction to pass OBD-II emissions on these cars does take a bit more work.

One popular approach is what's known as a parallel install, wherein the stock ECU remains in place and continues to drive ancillary functions such as idle, aircon, etc., while a secondary ECU such as a Megasquirt is connected to the injectors and ignition coils. This is somewhat similar to the old piggyback-style engine management systems (emanage, Xede, etc), except that neither ECU is acting as a signal modifier for the other, they're merely doing separate tasks.

Obviously this requires that you leave most of the stock hardware (EGR, MAF, Evap, etc) in place, though it's not like these things are robbing you of power.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 11:20 AM   #16
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 345
Total Cats: 8
Default

If OBDII is mandatory, I would be fiddling around with the AEM FIC - I know it's not the best, but OBDII... blah blah blah

For actual emissions - Gesi Cat. Not cheap, but works for high power apps.

Attached Images
 
05pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 12:50 PM   #17
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supercooper View Post
well, you CAN pass emission on an MS if you tune it properly... It has even been done without a cat before.... the REAL question is, does your state check to see if you have a stock ECU or not? do they plug in and check the number on your ECU
Tuning it wouldn't be a problem but in my state they don't check if it has an aftermarket ecu, they only plug in to check for readiness monitors.
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 01:10 PM   #18
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
All right, you guys- rinse the sand out of your vaginas. Vlad, I'm looking at you, sweetie.


There is not, so far as I am aware, anything like ROMRaider or DSMLink for the Miata platform. Consequently, setting up forced induction to pass OBD-II emissions on these cars does take a bit more work.

One popular approach is what's known as a parallel install, wherein the stock ECU remains in place and continues to drive ancillary functions such as idle, aircon, etc., while a secondary ECU such as a Megasquirt is connected to the injectors and ignition coils. This is somewhat similar to the old piggyback-style engine management systems (emanage, Xede, etc), except that neither ECU is acting as a signal modifier for the other, they're merely doing separate tasks.

Obviously this requires that you leave most of the stock hardware (EGR, MAF, Evap, etc) in place, though it's not like these things are robbing you of power.
well there probably isnt anything opensource like romraider and ecuflash for it but I have read about sniper and dptune that basically flash tune the stock ecu. I just need a little more info on both. I was really hoping to run speed density, I assume that wouldn't be possible with the parallel setup?
SnailSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 01:33 PM   #19
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,325
Total Cats: 1,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailSpeed View Post
I have read about sniper and dptune that basically flash tune the stock ecu. I just need a little more info on both.
There's some work along these lines starting to happen with the NC, but for the NB I'm still not aware of anything at all which is end-user-tuneable.

Which sucks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailSpeed View Post
I was really hoping to run speed density, I assume that wouldn't be possible with the parallel setup?
Yes, an ECU like a Megasquirt could still run in speed-density mode when installed in parallel with the stock ECU. The MAF sensor would run only to the stock ECU, while the MAP sensor would run only to the aftermarket unit. Most other sensors (temp, crank, cam, etc), would be split between the two, with the MS configured to NOT supply a pullup voltage, but rather accommodate whatever pullup the stock ECU is providing.

This is by no means an easy install, and you have to really get the tune right to keep the stock ECU from throwing fuel trim codes, but it can be done. There was a time, in fact, when this was the standard method of doing MS installation on the NB; before things like alternator control and VVT were well-understood. I would imagine that the documentation is all still lying around here somewhere...
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 01:42 PM   #20
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Morrison, CO
Posts: 472
Total Cats: 46
Default

Unless you tell people where you live no one knows what your emissions requirements are. Go to google and type in your state's name and "emissions testing" and then figure out wtf you have to do. After you do that search this forum for emissions testing and read all the info that's already here.
vitamin j is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Heat Transfer Question patsmx5 General Miata Chat 74 10-15-2015 12:18 AM
Bp5a swap NA8 Will_da_beast Engine Performance 1 09-14-2015 08:06 PM
eMission: Fail (now pass- woohoo!) Ben General Miata Chat 63 08-31-2008 11:43 PM
Tips for passing emissions... ak47bravo DIY Turbo Discussion 18 07-30-2008 08:28 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:10 PM.