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Old 01-13-2014, 05:17 PM   #41
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I have been on both sides. I stayed on the MS side but didn't despise either one or either of the user base.
I didn't suggest the adaptronic over the ms. I simply listed it as an option. Its definitely better than any of the piggybacks listed so far, since it works in parallel instead of actual piggyback.

I think once you REALLY look into it, you'll notice why there are so few properly built piggy back or even parallel powered miata's, and come to the same conclusions as most of us have.

Which is why I gave you grief about asking this question in the 1st place.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:17 PM   #42
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In this case, there has simply been a long-running debate which borders on the religious between proponents of the MS (who think the Adaptronic ECUs are too damned expensive and their users a bunch of mindless sheep who don't understand anything about how engine management and tuning works beyond writing large checks to pay for it) and proponents of the Adaptronic (who believe that the MS is a poorly-documented clusterfuck of a science-fair project, and that its users are a bunch of cheap-*** nerds who are willing to tolerate lots of bullshit and agony in order to save a buck.)

Both sides are correct.
Hillarious.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:10 PM   #43
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I have been on both sides. I stayed on the MS side but didn't despise either one or either of the user base.
I didn't suggest the adaptronic over the ms. I simply listed it as an option. Its definitely better than any of the piggybacks listed so far, since it works in parallel instead of actual piggyback.

I think once you REALLY look into it, you'll notice why there are so few properly built piggy back or even parallel powered miata's, and come to the same conclusions as most of us have.

Which is why I gave you grief about asking this question in the 1st place.

Wait, please explain more on the parallel part of adaptronic. Do you mean its internally wired to run in parallel instead of splicing the harness like you would for ms or did I miss something?
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:15 PM   #44
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In theory, this would happen with any engine management system which retains the stock ECU, including purely mechanical approaches such as a rising-rate fuel pressure regulator.

In actual practice, this has shown not to be a chronic problem for most reasonably-sized streetable turbo systems.

One CEL I have heard of a lot with Xede is P0300 (Random Misfire), a side-effect of the fact that most folks seem to use the Xede to bump up the ignition advance in the cruise cells. Easily avoided.



If you were referring to 18PSIs, post, understand that people sometimes use sarcasm in ways that are obvious to "insiders" (eg: those who have been around for a while and know where the skeletons are buried.)

In this case, there has simply been a long-running debate which borders on the religious between proponents of the MS (who think the Adaptronic ECUs are too damned expensive and their users a bunch of mindless sheep who don't understand anything about how engine management and tuning works beyond writing large checks to pay for it) and proponents of the Adaptronic (who believe that the MS is a poorly-documented clusterfuck of a science-fair project, and that its users are a bunch of cheap-*** nerds who are willing to tolerate lots of bullshit and agony in order to save a buck.)

Both sides are correct.
Well if you could somehow rescale the maf values and swap over to a larger maf housing then that would be cool, I do this on subarus since they will throw a cel if you hit 5v. Thats why I was trying to see if theres anyone that is able to tune the stock ecu on the miata.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:00 PM   #45
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Wait, please explain more on the parallel part of adaptronic. Do you mean its internally wired to run in parallel instead of splicing the harness like you would for ms or did I miss something?
There is nothing about the Adaptronic which is any different from any other ECU insofar as a parallel install is concerned. He was comparing the simple act of doing a parallel install of any ECU to installing a "piggyback" ECU, insofar as that it does not act as a signal modifier.

In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.




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Well if you could somehow rescale the maf values and swap over to a larger maf housing then that would be cool, I do this on subarus since they will throw a cel if you hit 5v. Thats why I was trying to see if theres anyone that is able to tune the stock ecu on the miata.
Given that BEGI has dyno charts posted showing >250 HP on Xede-equipped NBs, and we went for years with nothing but stock ECUs, I'm simply not convinced that the problem which you are trying to solve actually exists. The Miata MAF seems to have a lot more headroom than you'd expect.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:04 PM   #46
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There is nothing about the Adaptronic which is any different from any other ECU insofar as a parallel install is concerned. He was comparing the simple act of doing a parallel install of any ECU to installing a "piggyback" ECU, insofar as that it does not act as a signal modifier.

In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.




Given that BEGI has dyno charts posted showing >250 HP on Xede-equipped NBs, and we went for years with nothing but stock ECUs, I'm simply not convinced that the problem which you are trying to solve actually exists. The Miata MAF seems to have a lot more headroom than you'd expect.

I didn't mean to put it that way. I was just thinking ahead, if it did exist. Thanks for the clarification regarding the parallel setup.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:56 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
There is nothing about the Adaptronic which is any different from any other ECU insofar as a parallel install is concerned. He was comparing the simple act of doing a parallel install of any ECU to installing a "piggyback" ECU, insofar as that it does not act as a signal modifier.

In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.
It comes with its own harness making it easier to set up in parallel

This can be done with MS using a boomslang. Again, not saying its better or worse, and in fact there was almost none of the "religious following" you seem to think took place on either side so you can stop being a drama queen and making it look like anyone is arguing or getting upset.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:04 AM   #48
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It comes with its own harness making it easier to set up in parallel

This can be done with MS using a boomslang. Again, not saying its better or worse, and in fact there was almost none of the "religious following" you seem to think took place on either side so you can stop being a drama queen and making it look like anyone is arguing or getting upset.
Lol, got it. I'm actually talking to someone on here thats got an adaptronic e420 for sale. How recent is the e420, comparable to the ms2 or ms3 as far as computing(resolution, speed) capabilities?
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:06 AM   #49
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I think its somewhere between an ms1 and ms2. Dont' remember anymore. There was a really long thread where we compared them actually, dig around in the adaptronic section, its not that big so shouldn't be hard to find.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:11 PM   #50
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does the e420 support a/c?
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:15 PM   #51
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it supports everything. again, check out that thread I told you about
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:29 PM   #52
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it supports everything. again, check out that thread I told you about
I did, if this is the one you meant: https://www.miataturbo.net/adaptroni...asquirt-36332/
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:36 PM   #53
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post 17 I guess he doesn't list AC specifically but its included in the
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Plug and Play and runs necessary functions
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:46 PM   #54
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post 17 I guess he doesn't list AC specifically but its included in the
Oh ok, which adaptronic is the spreadsheet for? i'm guessing its for the e420 since that post was made in 2009.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:53 PM   #55
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yep.

the 1280 "select" or whatever is much much cooler, but costs a ton and by that time pnp MS units were out and most of us jumped ship. lol
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:59 PM   #56
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yep.

the 1280 "select" or whatever is much much cooler, but costs a ton and by that time pnp MS units were out and most of us jumped ship. lol
Allright, thanks for the help. I'm just worried that once I get the adaptronic I wont be satisfied with the processor speed(choppy power delivery feeling). But again if its a difference too small to notice when comparing to other ecus then I think I have made up my mind lol. Again thanks.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:06 PM   #57
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there's no choppy power delivery
this thing is more than capable of controlling your 20 year old ultra basic design engine
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:20 PM   #58
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I'm just worried that once I get the adaptronic I wont be satisfied with the processor speed(choppy power delivery feeling).
This concept isn't really relevant- don't concern yourself with it.

The speed of the CPU really has no impact on things like "choppy power delivery." Even an ancient 8 MHz CPU like the one used in the MS1 is so vastly faster than the operational speed of a running engine that, from the CPU's point of view, the engine is barely moving. Things like turning injectors on and off, firing ignition coils, etc, are extremely slow, simple tasks, and they are generally interrupt-driven.

Where fast CPUs become a factor is when you ask the ECU to start doing tasks not directly related to running the engine which involve a lot of math or I/O, such as implementing true PID functions quickly, doing loads of datalogging, etc. It also allows the programmers to be somewhat lazier, by writing everything in C (or worse), and letting the compiler worry about getting the code optimized, as compared to doing everything by hand in assembly.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:55 PM   #59
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awesome, good to hear that.
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