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How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs

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How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs

Old 02-13-2014, 09:36 PM
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Red face How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs

Working with a Naturally aspirated 1.8l block rebuilt with new rods and manley pistons, swapped in a 99/2000 head and intake and sensors. MS PNP, AEM wideband o2 which i cant get to work right...Headers, catback exhaust high flow fuel pump cool air no MAF

This tune tends to do fairly well...does everything look right?
Ive learned a lot on how to tune by reading up on this forum. but im still pretty novice

Ive played with almost every option possible in TS but i cant ever get the idle just right. also my wideband is an AEM (was installed in car already) dont know what type (just a gauge no controller).
Ive been using the project property: "Tech Edge WB 0-5v 19:1" and no kidding the readings on the TS gauge are pretty much dead on with the physical gauge.
AEM property reads .5 afr off at least.

My idle will steady for about 5-8 seconds and fluctuates sporadically and then goes back to steady constantly
In idle control im running "Warmup only" with 26IVFreq 16Crank and 9DutyC. warm/12 cold

Still get a rich condition the first 5-10 minutes of driving even when the CLT temps are 160 and up. The car just wants to run rich and will idle way high for a while even after being warmed up until its been driven a good ways.

Check out my tables and see if there is anything that looks off?
Some constructive criticism from the good guys would definitely help
Attached Thumbnails How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-zacknewve.png   How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-zacknewspark.png   How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-zackafrnew.jpg  
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:44 PM
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You are running a lot more timing advance at idle than I am. See if dropping those cells to 15-18 and then adjusting your other idle parameters to find a happy place makes it stable. I think it will help.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
You are running a lot more timing advance at idle than I am. See if dropping those cells to 15-18 and then adjusting your other idle parameters to find a happy place makes it stable. I think it will help.
Thanks for the tip! going to try it now
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:51 AM
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Also curious why tune for 16afr at 6k rpm low kpa?

Also why so lean at wot?

And why is the timing lower 5-6k mid kpa, then goes high again?

Never seen anything so weird.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Also curious why tune for 16afr at 6k rpm low kpa?

Also why so lean at wot?

And why is the timing lower 5-6k mid kpa, then goes high again?

Never seen anything so weird.
ok this is good!

So for the AFR's in low kpa and high rpm where should i be aiming?
closer to 15.0's? I will fix the drop in advance like you pointed out.
when i run the table generator and use the same x&y axis im getting
14.9-15.1 @ 2k - 4krpm and then back to 14.7 from 5-7k

also I changed the spark advance at idle rpms and it helped a little.. oscillation occurs still at like 10 sec intervals, but the are less sporadic.

One thing i don't believe i mentioned is that my req-fuel is at 11.6 and my idle screw on manifold is not even touching the spring flange on the TB. should i try to lower my warm idle duty to 8 and give it some idle screw and possibly some more req-fuel? what idle rpm should i try achive? ive seen some people say that 800rpm is good and 1000rpm is good..
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:35 PM
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14.7 at idle, 15.7 1500-3k rpm 0-60kpa, then down to 14 after 4k low kpa

wot - 13.5 from 1k to 4k, 13 after 4k rpm.

To be honest probably would be much better to interpolate a lot of those.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
14.7 at idle, 15.7 1500-3k rpm 0-60kpa, then down to 14 after 4k low kpa

wot - 13.5 from 1k to 4k, 13 after 4k rpm.

To be honest probably would be much better to interpolate a lot of those.
Thanks dude! i Will try to throw this in in the morning
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:31 AM
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Keep in mind the AFR target table is the guide for the VE table, and the VE table is what the ecu runs. That said it may take some time before autotune makes changes to the VE table.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Keep in mind the AFR target table is the guide for the VE table, and the VE table is what the ecu runs. That said it may take some time before autotune makes changes to the VE table.
Thanks for the help guys....
I plugged in the afrs and went for a good 30 min drive through back roads, and the interstate and had several wot pulls as well
It made a huge difference.
The idle still has some minor oscilaton here and there but seems to be better... im getting like 15.0afr on the gauge and a pretty consistent 1000 rpm idle

I am going to load my new tables up to compare difference for you

I added the new values in the spark and afr tables and "smoothed" them so it should shift to the new afr target better right? is this ok to do or should it be a jagged edge from 14.7 - -- 15.7

How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-zackvetableaf.pngHow do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-zacksparkta.pngHow do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-zackafrmt.png

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Old 02-16-2014, 02:27 PM
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Timing table, 500 and 1k.. from 0 to 60kpa make it 16 degrees, 15 for the above 3 (6) cells.

For the afr table 2k to 4k at 80kpa and above add .2-.3 afr.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:04 PM
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Your idle oscillates because it's changing timing between 22-18.
That's too much as well. Put the idle cells down to 15 range like sixshooter said. It will be loads smoother and idle AFR should be 14-14.5 after you have it tuned right.
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Timing table, 500 and 1k.. from 0 to 60kpa make it 16 degrees, 15 for the above 3 (6) cells.

For the afr table 2k to 4k at 80kpa and above add .2-.3 afr.
As pointed out in my graphic, What about the sudden change in the spark tables from 16-18 to mid 20's ?

- should i smooth? or interpolate? smoothing raises the new 16's to 18 but gets better transition.

As for the fuel table i will run VE analyze again in the morning and again you guys, thanks for the input it is really helpful
How do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-newafrtablezackafr.pngHow do my tables look? and some other ametuer tuner probs-sparktunenewmtnet.png
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by zacktrotter_uncc View Post
As pointed out in my graphic, What about the sudden change in the spark tables from 16-18 to mid 20's ?

- should i smooth? or interpolate? smoothing raises the new 16's to 18 but gets better transition.

As for the fuel table i will run VE analyze again in the morning and again you guys, thanks for the input it is really helpful
Attachment 103327Attachment 103328
Yeah, that should be a smoother transition sir.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:19 PM
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Its fine. You do not want to change the 1k cell higher as then it would screw up ur idle. If you want to drop the 1.5k down 1 to 2 degrees to smooth it out then have at it but then you'll probably lose efficiency.
What ms is this btw? why such a low cell count?
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Its fine. You do not want to change the 1k cell higher as then it would screw up ur idle. If you want to drop the 1.5k down 1 to 2 degrees to smooth it out then have at it but then you'll probably lose efficiency.
What ms is this btw? why such a low cell count?
MS PNP gen 1. It was not my choice the car was like this when i bought it. ya know this car was a project car/toy until my other daily driver was stolen from me. now i am stuck with this modded out miata and its all i have. I just want to make it work and perform well

I knew nothing about tuning and after market ecu's and programming before hand but now i am kind of forced to learn.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:42 PM
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tried out the changes today, ran ve analyze for a 15 min run.
my idle dropped down to 600 rpm idle and was twitching back and forth like crazy.
turned up warm idle duty cycle to 10, and smoothed out ve tables at idle.
still was kind of bad, then i smoothed up the spark table in the 1000-1500k range and added 4 degrees to the first (3) 500 rpm cells
**(this was a suggestion from DIY PNP to have a stabilizing effect on idle)
it helped the oscillation a lot but really its just about the same as it was before.
but nonetheless everything AFTER 1500 rpm is running great!

starting to wonder if something mechanical is screwed up that could cause the disruption in the idle.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:35 AM
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added 4 degrees to the first 3 500 rpm cells? What are u running now 20 degrees at 500 rpm?
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
added 4 degrees to the first 3 500 rpm cells? What are u running now 20 degrees at 500 rpm?
Yes. It was a suggestion somewere in one of the MS manuals or some page about setting up base timing and idle for megasquirt

"drop the first x axis down 3-400 rpm lower than the target idle, and raise them 4-6 degrees higher, making a valley"

this is "supposed to have a stabilizing affect on idle"

Found it here! Should i not do this? take note the idle was much more sporadic until i added this valley
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:27 AM
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You shouldn't need to run that much timing at idle. 12-14 usually gets the job done. What that writeup is talking about is adding a row, not adding timing.

You typically want a row that's a bit lower than your target idle, one at idle, and one slightly higher. then when it searches you use all 3 rows to "stabilize"
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:29 AM
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same goes for your ve table

the key here is smoothness and tiny gradual changes. not a huge 3* bump and a 1500rpm spread. that will just make it hunt more
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