Inertia dyno, waste of time? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


ECUs and Tuning Discuss Engine Management, Tuning, & Programming

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-17-2016, 09:13 AM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 31
Total Cats: 0
Default Inertia dyno, waste of time?

I was going to setup a dyno tune session with a recommended local tuner around here, but I learned he uses an inertia dyno instead of a load dyno. Would I be wasting my time, and my money? He charges ~$500 for the dyno/tune time. The next option would probably be the guys at Summit Point in WV, about 3.5 hours away.

Thoughts?
CrazedNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 09:28 AM   #2
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,793
Default

what ECU?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 09:38 AM   #3
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 31
Total Cats: 0
Default

Sorry, should have mentioned. MSLabs MS3 Basic.

To add; the tuner in question has been recommended by several different people, one of which races Miatas. He is supposed to be well versed in TunerStudio and tunes race cars, Mustangs, Corvettes, etc.
CrazedNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:10 AM   #4
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 83
Total Cats: 9
Default

This is very relevant to my interests. Considering there are only 2 dyno's within a 5 hour drive of me. Living in the middle of nowhere's sucks sometimes.
MetalMuffins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:17 AM   #5
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,206
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

Inertia is usually just for seeing what power it puts down, or if you don't want to do high speed pulls on public roads. Obv its nowhere near as effective as a proper load dyno, but not useless altogether ( I guess ).

I don't really understand the question: if he's the pro that he is, who cares what dyno he uses as long as he gets your car tuned properly. Bring him the car and let him tune it. If he doesn't tune all the cells like he's supposed to, then he's not such a pro. If you're not the one doing the tuning, why does anything but the end result matter?
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:29 AM   #6
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,793
Default

pretty much what Vlad said. 10:1 says he just uses autotune anyway :P
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:36 AM   #7
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 31
Total Cats: 0
Default

Well that's the question isn't it? Is it even possible to do a complete tune on an inertia dyno, or is it a waste of time? I don't care about end result "A" if it's no where near as effective as end result "B." He might be a pro but my question was is it worth spending money on this pro or find another "pro" with a load dyno.

Question answered I suppose.

/thread
CrazedNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 11:03 AM   #8
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

An inertia dyno can tune WOT just fine. If you car is a pure race car where your throttle is an on off switch this might be sufficient. If you drive your car on the street and use part throttle light load cells then you will need a load bearing dyno to accurately tune for MBT spark.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 01:59 PM   #9
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,878
Total Cats: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
An inertia dyno can tune WOT just fine. If you car is a pure race car where your throttle is an on off switch this might be sufficient. If you drive your car on the street and use part throttle light load cells then you will need a load bearing dyno to accurately tune for MBT spark.
An inertial dyno easily can tune WOT, which means if it's a turbo EBC car it can tune anything from mechanical boost up to maximum, so long as you have the EBC settings done properly. With some care you can even tune the row below mechanical boost by doing runs at partial throttle.

You won't get MBT in vacuum rows -- do you really care? If you're not at WOT and you want more power, you just go WOT.

Load-holding dynos are more flexible and more powerful, but they're more expensive and harder to find. Inertial dynos work OK.

Personally I'd rent the dyno and DIY the tuning, rather than paying for a t00ner's time, but...

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 02:21 PM   #10
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 31
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
An inertial dyno easily can tune WOT, which means if it's a turbo EBC car it can tune anything from mechanical boost up to maximum, so long as you have the EBC settings done properly. With some care you can even tune the row below mechanical boost by doing runs at partial throttle.

You won't get MBT in vacuum rows -- do you really care? If you're not at WOT and you want more power, you just go WOT.

Load-holding dynos are more flexible and more powerful, but they're more expensive and harder to find. Inertial dynos work OK.

Personally I'd rent the dyno and DIY the tuning, rather than paying for a t00ner's time, but...

--Ian
That actually makes a lot of sense, thank you!

I'm waiting to hear back from the guys at Summit Point with their quote, then I'll make my decision based on price/value.
CrazedNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 03:39 PM   #11
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,793
Default

How long of a session for $500? I'd expect like an insanely perfect tune. Do you know what his tuning session actually entails?

I can get your boosted fuel cell pretty much perfect in about 15 minutes on a dyno.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 03:41 PM   #12
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,780
Total Cats: 1,107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedNA View Post
That actually makes a lot of sense, thank you!

I'm waiting to hear back from the guys at Summit Point with their quote, then I'll make my decision based on price/value.
Which shop out at Summit Point? I used to hang out there in the garages a good bit before I moved south.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
How long of a session for $500? I'd expect like an insanely perfect tune. Do you know what his tuning session actually entails?

I can get your boosted fuel cell pretty much perfect in about 15 minutes on a dyno.
Basically this, for the $500 they better be tuning for MBT everywhere and getting everything but warmup settings just about perfect.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 03:41 PM   #13
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,206
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

lol boosted fuel cell is like 5% of a proper tune
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 03:50 PM   #14
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 31
Total Cats: 0
Default

Braineack: Good question, when I spoke to him he said it included everything from dyno time to complete tune. I think the same shop usually charges $150 for a one hour rental of the dyno, so take that for what its worth. The shop in question is here FlimFlam Speed & Custom Tuning - No harm in posting that I don't suppose. He does mostly Fords, but has done Miata's and is well versed in TunerStudio from what I understand.

shuiend: The shop at Summit Point is RP Performance Racing, they come highly recommended, still waiting to hear back. And I agree, $500 seems high for an inertia tune, I may be a little more inclined to spend that if I knew it would be a complete tune across the board.
CrazedNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 04:07 PM   #15
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
lol boosted fuel cell is like 5% of a proper tune
which is about all you can really do on an inertia dyno...
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 04:09 PM   #16
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,206
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

yup. every time someone asks me about a dyno tune I ask them if they want the rest of the tune too
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 04:11 PM   #17
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,780
Total Cats: 1,107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedNA View Post
shuiend: The shop at Summit Point is RP Performance Racing, they come highly recommended, still waiting to hear back. And I agree, $500 seems high for an inertia tune, I may be a little more inclined to spend that if I knew it would be a complete tune across the board.
I know who RP is, I wouldn't have any issues with them tuning my car. I had my first built engine machine work done at the machine shop that is right behind RP. Well they used to be right behind RP, not sure if they have swapped garages around any.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 05:39 PM   #18
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

As long as $500 includes idle, startup, cruise, etc. And not just WOT that's probably a reasonable price.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 05:46 PM   #19
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

For reference. Church automotive in Los Angeles is about $500 for a load bearing dyno pack tune. It takes about 2 hours. He's a reputable tuner although everyone complains about how high his dyno reads.

This is supposed to be a complete tune but a bit of the part load stuff seemed half-assed. I had an issue with the TPS dot threshold for accel enrichment being off caused false accel enrichment events at freeway cruise. He fixed it no charge but it was a pain to return to the shop the get it looked at.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 03:50 PM   #20
Newb
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eurodisney
Posts: 4
Total Cats: 0
Default

I guess your boost ramp will be lower than on the road (not enough friction that will rise load on the engine).
You can fake some load by left breaking the car a little bit, but it wise to check on the streets just after. You'll also need to underrev the engine to go in some area of the table.
And for these reasons, I wouldn't tune an EBC on that kind of dyno too.
dj_spark is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on Broke n Boosted? Budget Turbo Series ipwnedx DIY Turbo Discussion 100 05-19-2016 06:29 PM
DC Crew, I need breakfast option in Alexandria tomorrow morning... samnavy Insert BS here 2 05-14-2016 09:33 PM
Turbomiataing for some time. Where have you clowns been? Floridiot_Moody Meet and Greet 4 05-05-2016 11:28 AM
Oversized OEM pistons OR Forged Pistons - Budget build recommendation? ennjay Engine Performance 10 05-01-2016 06:47 PM
Hello Everyone! Been lurking behind the scenes learning and felt like saying hi! Sethk559 Meet and Greet 2 04-22-2016 08:59 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:03 AM.