info needed on J&S knock box - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


ECUs and Tuning Discuss Engine Management, Tuning, & Programming

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-20-2013, 11:36 PM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default info needed on J&S knock box

I have a 90 1.6 and i bought a used kit. When opening it up i discovered it came with a J&S knock controller. I know some of these are pretty old so my question is... Is this obsolete to the newer "simpler" systems like the bipes or msd? Im just wondering if i should keep it or sell it and buy a cheaper one.

I know very little about this unit, whats its features exactly? the site is somewhat vague on which unit i actually have.

I will be only be pushing around the stock 6psi or so.

thanks for any help

this is the piece in question.

Attached Thumbnails
info needed on J&S knock box-9095139515_068eb8eca3.jpg   info needed on J&S knock box-9095190347_d075f7b738.jpg  
karcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:02 AM   #2
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karcher View Post
(...) J&S knock controller. (...) Is this obsolete to the newer "simpler" systems like the bipes or msd?(...)
The J&S box incorporates an actual knock sensor.

The Bipes and MSD boxes do not- they simply retard the ignition timing by a fixed amount based on manifold pressure, regardless of whether knock is occurring or knot.


(rimshot.)


The J&S products, while somewhat old, are fairly high-end.

The Bipes ACU and MSD "Sebring" boxes are just as old, and were vastly inferior even when new.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:28 AM   #3
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

Interesting. I'll have to look into it more. I found their site a little confusing to figure how this specific unit operates. How to adjust it and such. I'm not too knowledgable about tuning so I hope this unit is "too good " that I won't be able to understand it. Haha
karcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 12:33 AM   #4
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

A lot of piggyback timing-control units came and went during that period of time.

The various J&S products were generally regarded as being at the upper-end of the spectrum in terms of quality and performance, whereas the Bipes ACU and MSD Sebring were, shall we say, more... budget-conscious.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 08:51 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 3
Default

They did proper windowed knock detection, per cylinder retard etc. They are miles ahead of most of the current budget orientated offerings.
damir130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 09:11 AM   #6
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

That supposed to be a pretty good and still relevant knock controller...
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 10:30 AM   #7
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

awesome, thanks for the help. i managed to talk to John from J&S. He's helped me a great deal with the unit as i had no instructions, and little wiring that went with it.

Seems like this is a good device since it actually monitors instead of only reading boost and increasing on the grounds of that only. I will definetly be incorporating this in my setup. thanks everyone
karcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 10:42 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,119
Total Cats: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karcher View Post
I have a 90 1.6 and i bought a used kit. When opening it up i discovered it came with a J&S knock controller. I know some of these are pretty old so my question is... Is this obsolete to the newer "simpler" systems like the bipes or msd? Im just wondering if i should keep it or sell it and buy a cheaper one.

I know very little about this unit, whats its features exactly? the site is somewhat vague on which unit i actually have.

I will be only be pushing around the stock 6psi or so.

Im running a J&S and, while it is still AIDS, it actually works very well. if you have ANY questions at all about your particular box, contact [email protected]

he is VERY helpful, and willing to lend a hand (or email) he will answer anything you need, and even email you schematics for everything. i dont have the system you have, i actually have what they call the 'Miata Black Box' but they all work well... mine was just designed specifically for the miata.

although the J&S is a great system... you really should look into getting a megasquirt setup... then there is no need for all the AIDS

EDIT: sorry... i should have read... you already contacted him... hahahaha :P

Last edited by supercooper; 06-22-2013 at 10:45 AM. Reason: should have read first....... sorry
supercooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 10:53 AM   #9
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Even with something like a Megasquirt, the J&S box is still relevant. It's a good knock-sensor-decoding systemm, and all else being equal, will permit you to run more timing safely.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 10:56 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,119
Total Cats: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Even with something like a Megasquirt, the J&S box is still relevant. It's a good knock-sensor-decoding systemm, and all else being equal, will permit you to run more timing safely.
well, thats good to know.... because i was about to strip mine off the harness...
so, being that my MS will be PNP, would i have to advise the builder of the system that i have the J&S installed? would that affect the ECU at all? i was thinking the J&S would try to retard the timing, and the ECU would fight its decision making process. (sorry about the noobness, im trying to learn all i can about MS before i take the plunge)
supercooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 08:46 AM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

the MS won't have a clue about the J&S retarding timing.
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 10:30 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,119
Total Cats: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
the MS won't have a clue about the J&S retarding timing.
awesome... that makes my move to MS that much easier.. i was hesitating, because i didnt know if i was gonna have to strip down the harness befoe i could ever use it. everything is soldered in very nicely. very cool... im really looking forward to this...
supercooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 07:08 PM   #13
Newb
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 22
Total Cats: -2
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
the MS won't have a clue about the J&S retarding timing.
I use the J&S safeguard with my MSPnP

You will be able to hook it up with your MS providing the version you have is the 2 channel version (direct control of coils) called Ultra Safeguard. There will be dip settings on the side that will give you the choice of single (cam angle sensor) or 2 channel mode.

If your J&S is the older 1 channel only version sell it.. It wont work with the standalone.

The J&S wired direct on the coils from the MSPnp is DECADES! Ahead of any diy Detcan setup for knock control.
NorthernlightR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 04:54 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EXTREME Southern Illinois
Posts: 281
Total Cats: 0
Default

If you don't want the unit to directly control your ignition, you can use the "monitor output" as an input on your engine management. I've got mine setup to retard timing, add fuel, and reduce boost depending on how much knock it is picking up.
DammitBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
1991 special edition with hard top full part out JC, NJ russian Miata parts for sale/trade 6 10-08-2015 04:01 PM
WTB HPDE miata - Texas Voltwings Cars for sale/trade 0 09-27-2015 07:40 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:53 AM.