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Old 12-08-2009, 07:54 AM   #1
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Default Just Turbocharged: lambda values

Hi everybody!

As in the title I just turocharged my 2004 1.8 VVT engine with an HKS kit w/o intercooler.

The kit is intended to go with 6 psi boost and it has a piggy back (HKS F CON MINI) ecu that works on injectors and spark timing.

Because the kit was for the 1.8 engine without the variable cam, after the installation I'd like to check that the amount of fuel the engine receives is quite rich.

At the moment I don't have a wideband (please forgive me but the shipping times from usa to italy is so long....), but I tested using the OBD information about the first OEM lambda sensor, obviously before kat.

UNDER BOOST IT GOES TO 1-1.05 VOLTS AND REMAINS STEADY ON THAT VALUE, IS THAT RICH??

Releasing gas it goes down.
Cruising at low boost it goes up and down like a lambda should do.

please let me know.

Thank you

Simone
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:10 AM   #2
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1.0 volt is definitely rich. How rich is impossible to tell.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:16 AM   #3
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~1V basically means "richer than stoich". How much richer than stoich is unknown.
If you don't hear any detonation, then you're probably ok, but take it easy until you get your wideband installed.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:52 AM   #4
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usually the NB scale is from 18-10:1, so anywhere between .75v and 1v is 13.5:1-10:1 give or take
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:15 AM   #5
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Narrow bands are the Helen Keller of oxygen sensors.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
~1V basically means "richer than stoich". How much richer than stoich is unknown.
If you don't hear any detonation, then you're probably ok, but take it easy until you get your wideband installed.
I heard some detonation only boosting at 0.45 bar (6,5 psi) @ 6700 rpm, then we went down to 5,8 psi and no detonation occurred in 3rd and 4th gear up to 7000 rpm

I already ordered an LC1 kit from innovate... hope it arrives soon!
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
usually the NB scale is from 18-10:1, so anywhere between .75v and 1v is 13.5:1-10:1 give or take
If it was like you say it is surely good because it arrived to 1.05 v under boost! But there's no scheme about that on the repair manual of an 2002 engine...

ANYBODY KNOWS MORE?
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:42 AM   #8
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they are all pretty standard, non-heated ones are less accurate.


vs a wideband at 0-1v:

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Old 12-11-2009, 10:43 AM   #9
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I'd like to try it on the motorway this weekend looking for the maximum speed... When it was NA it reached 6100 rpm @ 210 kmh in 6th gear... hope it goes up... I don't know how much.......

what about spark plugs?? I bought NGK BKR7EIX-11 (iridium), on the NA it suggested 5 or 6 grade, 1 more is enough??
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonetrb View Post
If it was like you say it is surely good because it arrived to 1.05 v under boost! But there's no scheme about that on the repair manual of an 2002 engine...

ANYBODY KNOWS MORE?
The actual output voltage is a function of both AFR and EGT. Nobody is going to know more... unless perhaps you already know your EGT readings.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonetrb View Post
what about spark plugs?? I bought NGK BKR7EIX-11 (iridium), on the NA it suggested 5 or 6 grade, 1 more is enough??
The 6 heatrange was stock for the 1.6s, the 1.8s got a 5, which is one hotter.

7 is a very common choice for turbo motors. For the past two years, I've been running a set of 8s, and even they don't seem to have having any problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by simonetrb View Post
If it was like you say it is surely good because it arrived to 1.05 v under boost! But there's no scheme about that on the repair manual of an 2002 engine...


See the problem?

1.05v could cover quite a range of AFRs. No way to know what it really means.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The 6 heatrange was stock for the 1.6s, the 1.8s got a 5, which is one hotter.

7 is a very common choice for turbo motors. For the past two years, I've been running a set of 8s, and even they don't seem to have having any problems.




See the problem?

1.05v could cover quite a range of AFRs. No way to know what it really means.
Yes, understood!!

Now I reduced the spark plugs gap to 0,035"...

In the meanwhile I tested it on the motorway reaching 6500 rpm and 225 kmh (140 mph)... good enough!

For the AFR the wideband is coming soon!!
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonetrb View Post
In the meanwhile I tested it on the motorway reaching 6500 rpm and 225 kmh (140 mph)... good enough!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
take it easy until you get your wideband installed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
take it easy until you get your wideband installed.
take it easy

take it easy

What part about "take it easy" did you not understand? You could be seeing 13.5:1 AFRs at full boost, which will kill your motor in short order. If this is your definition of "take it easy", I'd recommend you not drive the car until you get a wideband installed.

"take it easy" means no full throttle, minimal boost, not full throttle pulls in 6th gear.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:57 PM   #14
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I'd let Savington go full throttle on me.
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:19 AM   #15
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Ok guys thanks for your advices...

I just went WOT 1 time, and now from sunday night to saturday the baby is sleeping in the garage...

This morning the wideband has arrived and for saturday night it will be working!

WHICH VALUES UNDER BOOST SHOULD I CONSIDER CORRECT?

Thank you again

Simone
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:37 AM   #16
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FINALLY THE WIDEBAND LAMBDA IS IN THE CAR!!

It arrived this week, shipped from USA in 4-5 days!

I wired it yesterday morning and finished everything in the afternoon...

First data:

idling 14,5 - 15

cruising low revs up to 2300 rpm with no boost yet same values 14-15

boosting until 5500 rpm 13 - 12,5

boosting up to 7000 rpm 11,5 - 10,8

releasing (cut off) 21,8

the car is boosted at 6 psi and the bung is 10" from the turbo

what do you think??

thank you everybody
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:47 PM   #17
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"The Roxy", I think it is not as likely that your engine will explode now. Keep taking it easy.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:30 AM   #18
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Hi!

Anybody wants to comment my AFR values???

This saturday i went to the track for two 20 minutes rounds...

It was its first track day since it was turbo'ed and I just had 400 miles on the kit...

the afr values werw steady at 10.8 under boost of 6 psi...isn't it too much???

please let me know
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:18 PM   #19
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Default those values look reasonable

Do you know your intake air temps?
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Do you know your intake air temps?
If the values are reasonable is enough to know, considering that I wired the hks f con mini without any setup to it... (it is pre-programmed)

I really don't know air temps, usually is better to have this info?

The only thing I know is that the boost is 6 psi, maybe I could calculate it...
I don't have intercooler at the moment
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