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Old 01-09-2010, 12:45 AM   #1
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Default Knock monitor

Hello,

I'm looking for a decent priced unit to sense and listen for knock (not looking to have it controlled). I am using an Adaptronic ECU on my 2001. Does anyone know if this unit is any good? Or is there a better suited unit that allows for listening? This one is available locally to me for $300.

J&S Electronics SafeGuard


Thanks for any info.
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:57 AM   #2
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It doesn't work.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:09 AM   #3
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Ha Hustler you're on crack and no wonder you're such a paranoid. the J&S Ultra Safeguard is one of the best active knock sensing units you can get.

OP you know the E420 Adaptronic has active knock control built in don't you? Anyway If all you want is detection, not something to do anyhting about it the J&S is a bit overkill.

I have and use the TurboXS Knocklite. it sounds a bit eBay tat-ish. but actually it's nothing short of brilliant at detecting knock (confirmed with electronic detcans). It needs an RPM input so it can distinguish between increased engine noise and knock.


Turbo XS - WRX, STi, EVO SRT4, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Turbo, Turbocharged


Also doubles up as a shift light if you so desire.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
Ha Hustler you're on crack and no wonder you're such a paranoid. the J&S Ultra Safeguard is one of the best active knock sensing units you can get.

OP you know the E420 Adaptronic has active knock control built in don't you? Anyway If all you want is detection, not something to do anyhting about it the J&S is a bit overkill.

I have and use the TurboXS Knocklite. it sounds a bit eBay tat-ish. but actually it's nothing short of brilliant at detecting knock (confirmed with electronic detcans). It needs an RPM input so it can distinguish between increased engine noise and knock.


Turbo XS - WRX, STi, EVO SRT4, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Turbo, Turbocharged


Also doubles up as a shift light if you so desire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_man View Post
That thing is mostly a useless toy since you can't specify the noise curve of the engine over the rpm range, doesn't know when the ignition events are (to listen for knock where it is expected), etc. - things which the decent ECU have. Also, the decent ECUs have EGR probe per cylinder and the ECU can turn the engine in limp mode if it notices something's going on with a cylinder ...

Btw, just for a comparison the Superlap Battle Finale winner and the 3rd place overall Redline Finale finisher Sierra-Sierra EVO is controlling their Cosworth engine with a Pectel SQ6 (and Pectel EDC computer controlling the differential). Price is around $5000 for just the ECU.

Does your JGS safeguard sample ignition events to sample for knock resonance, or does it fail and filter out and turn off at high rpm?
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:20 AM   #5
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Is that in specific reply to the J&S or the Knocklite?

Knocklite has RPM filtering, granted you can't alter the curve, but for the MX5 at least it's a very well proven device.

I've no experience of the CosWorth motor so can't really comment. not exactly an apples to apples comparison is it
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:45 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
Is that in specific reply to the J&S or the Knocklite?

Knocklite has RPM filtering, granted you can't alter the curve, but for the MX5 at least it's a very well proven device.

I've no experience of the CosWorth motor so can't really comment. not exactly an apples to apples comparison is it
So you're saying you've disregarded my post? OK, blow your money out your ***, i don't give a ****.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:49 AM   #7
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OMG your such a tool. Re-read my post you blind idiot.

I already own a Knocklite, It works brilliantly. You just copied and pasted some random **** but didn't actually reference it against anything contributed thus far in the thread.

Go back to your corner and cry about your engines impending implosion and leave the serious discussion to people who can remain coherent.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
OMG your such a tool. Re-read my post you blind idiot.

I already own a Knocklite, It works brilliantly. You just copied and pasted some random **** but didn't actually reference it against anything contributed thus far in the thread.

Go back to your corner and cry about your engines impending implosion and leave the serious discussion to people who can remain coherent.
How long is your sample period before each ignition event?
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #9
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No idea. Do I care? Nope it works. Is that so hard to believe?

I've run it alongside me caning the car with a set of detcans fitted. I've intentionally set in knock and guess what it picked it up.

Sometimes you don't need to have *all* the information you know, Ignorance can be bliss at times
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
No idea. Do I care? Nope it works. Is that so hard to believe?

I've run it alongside me caning the car with a set of detcans fitted. I've intentionally set in knock and guess what it picked it up.

Sometimes you don't need to have *all* the information you know, Ignorance can be bliss at times
You're really ******* stupid. I'm going to do you a favor and open a vein to bleed some intelligence into this piece of **** thread you've created but you'll probably disregard my advice and go back to dreaming of a body fat index low enough to make it on Jersey Shore to "G" girls in New Jersey bars because going home with an Alabama tranny because you've never been man enough for a women without a Y-chromosome, bro.

Of course you can hear "gross" detonation, duh. You're too ******* stupid to realize that less severe knock events cannot be heard, and still eat up engines. I have a friend who tuned out knock with det cans and had slight detonation for an entire track season...then rebuilt. Savington heard no detonation with det cans, and still ate a motor.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:02 PM   #11
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Meh, which is why you're a paranoid **** and I'm perfectly happy and not particularly worried.

There's not a lot better than the human ear in picking up det. Period. the slightst 'ping' I could pick up was regarded as severe knock by the Knocklite.

Good enough for me and I can sleep at night unlike some people who go into an obsessive crying episode every time they pull their plugs and post them on the forum.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
Meh, which is why you're a paranoid **** and I'm perfectly happy and not particularly worried.

There's not a lot better than the human ear in picking up det. Period. the slightst 'ping' I could pick up was regarded as severe knock by the Knocklite.

Good enough for me and I can sleep at night unlike some people who go into an obsessive crying episode every time they pull their plugs and post them on the forum.
I agree the ear is superior, but you can't really use it with precision when you're hitting 130mph+ in 5th gear on lets say the 10th lap of the session.

Its good enough for you and useless to me because I can't afford the proper ****...and we're comparing apples to latent homosexuality because you put around the street and I crush skulls on the track and drink blood from still-beating hearts.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
No idea. Do I care? Nope it works. Is that so hard to believe?

I've run it alongside me caning the car with a set of detcans fitted. I've intentionally set in knock and guess what it picked it up.

Sometimes you don't need to have *all* the information you know, Ignorance can be bliss at times
Do you by chance use a FF supercharger. I hear their E-cool "intercooler" is 200% efficient...

Don't ask how just know that it works

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Old 01-09-2010, 01:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTech View Post
Do you by chance use a FF supercharger. I hear their E-cool "intercooler" is 200% efficient...

Don't ask how just know that it works

Ha ha I'm not that much of an Idiot

Charger is a hotside with a FMIC, see my sig

e-cool is utter bunkem, reminds me though I really need my WI hooking back up
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I agree the ear is superior, but you can't really use it with precision when you're hitting 130mph+ in 5th gear on lets say the 10th lap of the session.

Its good enough for you and useless to me because I can't afford the proper ****...and we're comparing apples to latent homosexuality because you put around the street and I crush skulls on the track and drink blood from still-beating hearts.
Genius, and here's me thinking you'd lost it Hustler

I do track my car, but granted probably not as hard as you

If the OP can chime in on what the car is used for it'd probably help on whether the KL is any good for them
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
OP you know the E420 Adaptronic has active knock control built in don't you? Anyway If all you want is detection, not something to do anyhting about it the J&S is a bit overkill.
The E420 does have active knock control, but I would also like to listen for it. The E420 also displays the knock count, but I have no idea what number is within a reasonable range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
If the OP can chime in on what the car is used for it'd probably help on whether the KL is any good for them
It's for my 2001 NB. Soon to be turbo, but I want to work out all the electronic stuff first.


Hustler, why doesn't it work? Is that stereo jack not for headphones? Can't find too much info on it either.


EDIT: Just got a reply from the J&S guy. That 3.5mm stereo jack is just the output to the included gauge display...damn.

Last edited by dgmorr; 01-09-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:54 AM   #17
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FYI, Rich, leaving the VVT unhooked like you intend on doing will make your motor prone to detonation. I struggled with low timing values and chronic detonation in my original motor due to an incorrectly installed timing belt (2 teeth retarded).
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:34 AM   #18
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Oh crap! Cheers for the warning Savington.

Not a lot I can do about it currently, as unfortunately I need to install it asap. I'll have to tune accordingly and take the power loss hit :(
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:24 AM   #19
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I'm curious to hear what you guys think of this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t41877/

Would that work for what you want? Is the design any good? I know next to nothing about these things, so any comments are appreciated.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
FYI, Rich, leaving the VVT unhooked like you intend on doing will make your motor prone to detonation. I struggled with low timing values and chronic detonation in my original motor due to an incorrectly installed timing belt (2 teeth retarded).
There's a difference in that the VVT intake cam has less duration so the effect of permanent retard is different.
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