Mazdaspeed Miata.... MSPNP PRO Gen2 or Hydra 2.7? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-24-2015, 04:41 PM   #1
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Default Mazdaspeed Miata.... MSPNP PRO Gen2 or Hydra 2.7?

Hey guys, Ive had my MSM a bit over a year now with a number of bolt-ons[Turbo back FM 2.5 exhaust, MBC, 37mm koyo Radiator, Begi Cold air intake, FM stage 1 clutch, FM checkflow valve for oil drain, Hard Dog M2 rollbar with Harness Bar]

I already have an intercooler ordered from Fab9

Anywho onto what Ive been looking at, is getting the Hydra or MSPNP PRO. Miata will never see a track day or AutoCross. Though very spirited driving on Mountain roads.

From what ive heard is the Hydra has problems here and there, especially with previous versions. Havn't heard much about Megasquirts PNP being troublesome, tables are smaller than hydra, maybe a few less features?

What is yalls take on either system?
Im leaning to MSPNP PRO based off of cost and reviews.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:48 PM   #2
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Do you want to do it yourself or do you want the full 24/7 support from Flyin Miata?

The MS setup for MSM's is pretty plug and play at this point but there is still some needed involvement on your end. Which can be said for any standalone option really.

But with the MS you will need to sit and learn at least the basics. There is a wealth of information out there as long as you're willing to put in the work for it. So if something comes up you will need to take the initiative to do some troubleshooting. If you're not, spend the money and go the Hydra route. That's pretty much it.

I wouldn't really say one is better then the other since both are fully capable of whatever you want.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:15 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
Do you want to do it yourself or do you want the full 24/7 support from Flyin Miata?

The MS setup for MSM's is pretty plug and play at this point but there is still some needed involvement on your end. Which can be said for any standalone option really.

But with the MS you will need to sit and learn at least the basics. There is a wealth of information out there as long as you're willing to put in the work for it. So if something comes up you will need to take the initiative to do some troubleshooting. If you're not, spend the money and go the Hydra route. That's pretty much it.

I wouldn't really say one is better then the other since both are fully capable of whatever you want.
Well ive got my own Dinosaur of a laptop that I can use for manual tuning the not-so-sensitive areas, i plan to get it tuned probably next year in the spring after I get some stickier tires.

Aem wideband with guage, electronic boost controller from MS, 420cc Yellow body injectors from an RX8

Stock internals I think can only handle up to 225 at the wheels? Im already at 188 with the baby intercooler. Preformance wise it will get rid of the dreaded bogging that the stock ECU has and no more boost cut.

I dont mind getting into it, im a bit of a geek atleast on the hardware side of computers(build my own machines)
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:25 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Shinjitago View Post
From what ive heard is the Hydra has problems here and there, especially with previous versions. Havn't heard much about Megasquirts PNP being troublesome, tables are smaller than hydra, maybe a few less features?
Hydra has larger base tables -- And those tables are all raw PW based, and it has other tables with modifiers that stack up on top of base tables.

MegaSquirt has a smaller base table. However it automatically interpolates between cells. The reality is that the larger tables end up being very linear, and they end up being a big pain to tune. I have watched countless tuners tune one cell, then move either up or over 3 or 4 cells, tune that one, and then interpolate the cells they skipped over. So the higher resolution ends up having no advantage, and just takes longer to tune.

The MegaSquirt is also VE based, which makes tuning substantially simpler than PW based. There are no hidden corrections that you have to dial in for each feature.*

The MegaSquirt also has more features, not less, and things like alternator control and closed loop boost work better

I honestly like Hydra's built in wideband from an ease of install standpoint, but as you already have a wideband, this is a moot point for you.


*Hydra also has a VE mode, but it's my understanding that all of FM's basemaps are PW based.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:43 PM   #5
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MS3x PNP from Reverant or Braineak get my vote
Hydra gets a gigantic thumbs down from 99.99% of people here, many of which have or had one
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:06 PM   #6
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I haven't used a MSPNP PRO, but I do have a MS3 PRO, and it's MILES better than the MS2E I used to run. I actually had a hardware problem with my MS3 PROs knock board, but it was repaired under warranty for free and I have to say it is a very good ecu. Only reason I would go with a Hydra is if you want the FM support that goes with it. If you plan to tune it yourself, MS. If you plan to have your tuner tune it for you, I'd ask him which he prefers to tune.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I haven't used a MSPNP PRO, but I do have a MS3 PRO, and it's MILES better than the MS2E I used to run. I actually had a hardware problem with my MS3 PROs knock board, but it was repaired under warranty for free and I have to say it is a very good ecu. Only reason I would go with a Hydra is if you want the FM support that goes with it. If you plan to tune it yourself, MS. If you plan to have your tuner tune it for you, I'd ask him which he prefers to tune.
MSPNP Pro uses near identical base hardware as the MS3-Pro. That hardware is miles ahead of traditional MS3X type ECUs and all other MegaSquirt ECUs that use B&G daughter cards in all measurable areas (efficiency, ruggedness, input and output buffering, low/high voltage stability, it's even smaller and lighter). I have numerous customer reports of replacing MS3X with MS3-Pro and picking up power.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:25 PM   #8
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I haven't noticed 1 single one of these improvements, and I compared them back to back, literally, as well as tuned dozens of megasquirts by now.

The marketing/advertising is great tho.

Last edited by 18psi; 11-25-2015 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:23 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Hydra has larger base tables -- And those tables are all raw PW based, and it has other tables with modifiers that stack up on top of base tables.

MegaSquirt has a smaller base table. However it automatically interpolates between cells. The reality is that the larger tables end up being very linear, and they end up being a big pain to tune. I have watched countless tuners tune one cell, then move either up or over 3 or 4 cells, tune that one, and then interpolate the cells they skipped over. So the higher resolution ends up having no advantage, and just takes longer to tune.

The MegaSquirt is also VE based, which makes tuning substantially simpler than PW based. There are no hidden corrections that you have to dial in for each feature.*

The MegaSquirt also has more features, not less, and things like alternator control and closed loop boost work better

I honestly like Hydra's built in wideband from an ease of install standpoint, but as you already have a wideband, this is a moot point for you.


*Hydra also has a VE mode, but it's my understanding that all of FM's basemaps are PW based.
A lot of valuable information here, you pretty much sealed my deal of getting the MS PNP PRO

I'll tweak some of the stuff that I can configure, then go get it tuned in when spring hits. I don't think it will be worth tuning in the cold weather!
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