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Old 09-05-2009, 08:09 PM   #1
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Default Need Help tuning XEDE.

Hi all,
This has been my worst nightmare.

I just completed my installation with begi S1. And now I am trying to tune with XEDE. I have a few maps sourced from forum members and Bell's.

Let me begin my story,

Finished my installation on Wednesday night. Loaded a map given by a forum member and started the car. Car started and everything was fine at that point. Was a lean at around 17-18 on db guage.
Drove the car home ocassionally pushing car to 0 vac to hear the sound...everything was like perfect. When I reached home car ideled perfectly at 14.5-15.5. So went again for a short drive and noticed that around 1-3 psi car almost looses power and feels like car is being stopped by some giant rubberbands. Guage reads around 9 that time so I though may be extra richness causing the issue.

Oopes coolant was leaking. So torqued the nuts and problem was resolved somehow.

The next day I tried the base map from bells but car ideled rich at 9's. Ooops so changed back to map that worked. Then yesterday I tried the base map again and car started fine(cold) and I decided to take for short ride to nearby shop and get a few beers. I reached the shop and after that car doesnt wanna start(hot) rich and stalls can smell fuel CEL is flashing. after stall db reads like 9 on guage...!!!!! Was panic but kept trying with lil gas on suddenly car started and I managed to reach home.

Today morning I thought I will try the first map that worked. Loaded it and car started perfectly(cold). ideled nicely. I connected computer and wanted to see what part of map was causing the 1-3 psi rich issue. SO I decided to go to autozone to get the codes read. around 2 miles from my apartment. But 6 blocks before autozone on set of lights car gave up again. when I stopped car it died. Lights turned green people yelling ..... thank god I was on slope so car rolled slowely. Pulled on right in a shop parking shop was closed. turned iginition on and guage reads 8 this time!!!!Can again smell fuel. and car doesnt wanna start. I tried uploading all the maps I had around 6-7 maps. And after each one tried to start the car but no luck. Gueage still reads 8-9 occasionally 10 when I waited longer. Sometimes at 10 car starts and ideles so rough that whole car shakes. I had my handon tranny it gear *** was making me shiver for a moment I though my engine will fall down. When this happed car ideled at 200 at jumps to normal but stalls again. I called for truch to take the car home. brought it home. Later after (after 30 mins I last tried to start car) I tuned iginition on again db guage still reads 9 WTF.

I just need a map to take my car to good tuner. But just not happening even the map that worked before refuses to work now.

I am open to all options and suggestions.

If there is someone around Lowell Massachusetts who is willing to help in exchange of anything will be appreciated too.


Car Specs: 99 miata / 2560 / intercooler # 2 / rc 550's / XEDE
Currently only front O2 attached / Need to take the car to exhaust shop(if she moves) to get second one welded in. (because I had precar and sensors were pre and post precat.)



I have attached the map that worked before.

Thanks,

Parth.
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Old 09-05-2009, 09:05 PM   #2
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Ok first off, is your oxygen sensor a wideband? If it isn't, a lot of those AFR readings are going to be useless. I have never used XEDE, but with most other standalone units, you have to tell the system to scale for larger injectors. I'm guessing it thinks you are running stock injectors right now, and they are crazy rich. You should only need one map, and then start modifying that map. Every car reacts a bit differently, so you're going to need a proper custom setup. If anything, find a local dyno/tuner, and leave it with them for a few hours.
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Old 09-05-2009, 09:07 PM   #3
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Right next to Turbo -> sits Narrowband.

Before cat underneath -> post flex joint -> sits Wideband

One narrowband needs to be welded after the cat now.
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Old 09-05-2009, 09:10 PM   #4
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Additional...

Map I am using is from a user who had 550's and a 99 miata.

So configured on 550 Injectors and 60 psi rail pressure I assume.
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Old 09-06-2009, 01:21 PM   #5
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attached an image so wouldent need xmap download
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:13 PM   #6
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You have a couple of problems here.

1 is that you're bouncing back and forth from map to map. Dammit, start with one, tune it, and be done. Make sure you upload it and burn it. If you make changes, and like them, then remember to burn them. Any changes you make, but don't burn, will be lost when you power cycle.

2 is that you have the software o2 clamp telling the pcm you have a link mix at idle and in some places at cruise, which would explain odd rich behavior. All those -2's and -4.1's are sending a really odd o2 signal to the stock computer. Make them all 0. Leave all the -10's alone, those modify the o2 signal when in boost to appear as lean.

The xede really isn't that hard to tune (especially if you get a friend to drive while you operate the laptop) and does a pretty decent job for as un-developed it is.
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:21 PM   #7
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Thanks a ton,

Alright will try it right away and post the results.

Parth.
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:38 PM   #8
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car started and wideband showed 9 intially then went to 10-10.5 and car died.

tried it 2 times same thing happened. R
ight now car is off but wb showing 10.7 on guage.

My cel is blinks when i start the car could that be the reason that there are some codes sitting in pcm which xede is unable to compensate for?

Should i reset pcm by disconnecting the battery?

Parth.
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:52 PM   #9
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Blinking CEL should be the misfire detection. The stock computer doesn't like your timing changes. If you reduce your advance, the CEL will go away. 8 is quite a bit of advance.

Car should run at 10:1 a/f. It's not ideal, but it should run. Did you give it some throttle?

The car will be rich through the warm up cycle. 30 seconds or a minute at 10-12:1 isn't unfathomable. You might want to check your o2 sensor for voltage output, make sure it didn't die.
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Old 09-06-2009, 03:16 PM   #10
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car just cranks now doesnt fire up anymore


WB still showing 14.4 with engine shut. I can imagine my o2 drenched in gas.

voltage showing 1.47v. on xmap screen
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Old 09-06-2009, 03:18 PM   #11
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Timing change suggestions? 4* should do the job?
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Old 09-06-2009, 04:43 PM   #12
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borrowed friends car and pulled codes out

Total 5 codes:

1) P0102 - MAF/VAF circuit low input.
2) P0140 - O2 sensor no activity bank 1 sensor 2
3) P0300 - Random multiple cylinder misfire detected
4) P1141 - Manufacture control fuel air metering
5) P0172 - System too rich bank 1

I only know about 2nd code as I havent connected post cat o1 sensor.
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Old 09-06-2009, 05:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parth View Post
borrowed friends car and pulled codes out

Total 5 codes:

1) P0102 - MAF/VAF circuit low input.
2) P0140 - O2 sensor no activity bank 1 sensor 2
3) P0300 - Random multiple cylinder misfire detected
4) P1141 - Manufacture control fuel air metering
5) P0172 - System too rich bank 1

I only know about 2nd code as I havent connected post cat o1 sensor.
1) is from too little voltage on the MAF signal
3) is from the xede messing with timing signals, goes away with less advance. it's nothing to worry about really
I would assume 4 & 5 are caused by 1. <edit> check that, I wouldn't be suprised if your o2 clamp coming on out of boost casued them.

Earlier, when I said to check for o2 sensor signal, I meant check on the narrowband. The narrowband is what the pcm runs off of.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:18 PM   #14
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**Update:-


Removed my plugs :- AHHHHHH they were black.

Sand papered them...put them back...car fired..!!!!

Then died.....

Removed them.....AAHHHHH black again. sanded them again.

Fired the car....no luck...oooops battery died.

Got jump started...fired and ran over 3k rmp (i was giving gas)

then slowely i lifted my foot.

Car died again.

I am gonna put in ngk iridium new ones and get it jump started and will update you guys.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:30 PM   #15
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For my car to run the first 6 lower cells had to be 3.1 positive. It sounds stupid but that what it took.

With 550cc injectors and the Xede dont expect it to idle at anything over 11.1afr.

I fowled my plugs on a bad map in a short trip to the store you may need to take out your plugs and clean them.

Last check your setup, it may be a leak in the system. A blown intercooler pipe will cause the car not to start.

On the 02 map for now keep all cells under 30 load "0". For a S1 Kit you may have to go slightly below 30 but get the car running first.

Last contact Stephanie she may be able to help you better.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:37 PM   #16
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My car idles at 14.7 and stays in closed loop fine. The only positive numbers on my MAF map are on the very bottom row. I'm betting your MAF scaler is incorrect. I think the car will run too rich if MAF signal is too low as a sort of limp mode function. You might also need to adjust timing.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
My car idles at 14.7 and stays in closed loop fine. The only positive numbers on my MAF map are on the very bottom row. I'm betting your MAF scaler is incorrect. I think the car will run too rich if MAF signal is too low as a sort of limp mode function. You might also need to adjust timing.
Actually the ECU is designed to give the car more fuel to prevent a stall if the MAF gets to low. So yeah its kind of a limp function.

Thats why if your idle is to lean it will serge up just before stall.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:52 PM   #18
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That is what I suspected and makes total sense. It may sound odd, but try a higher MAF scaler and lower numbers in the MAF table. That worked better for me than a lower MAF scaler and 0's in the MAF table.

I wish the Xede were more developed. It would be awesome if it worked more like the EMU, which creates a MAF signal based on a 2D table of MAP vs RPM. It worked great on my 91. Honestly if it did that, it would probably be the ultimate piggy solution.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:14 PM   #19
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When I try to idle below 2300 rpm car stalls.

So I try keep it above 3000.

WB shows around 10 - 10.5

And on maps the load value falls at around 30 - 40 at that rpm range.

Is this normal? what should be the load value at different range when you rev up the engine in neutral.

I checked my O2 voltages today.

When car is on 0's i/p and o/p are same but as I had to keep my car above 3k ; Xede was interpolating between 0's and -10's so with i/p voltage of 0.77 Xede was outputting almost half around 0.37 - 0.40.

could this be a reason for rich mixture?

Parth
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:06 PM   #20
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Parth, did you figure it out? Soon i'll be in the same boat as you since i'm getting xede as well so..
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