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Which path to take OBDII "Compliant" EMS option

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Which path to take OBDII "Compliant" EMS option

 
Old 06-19-2019, 12:30 PM
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Default Which path to take OBDII "Compliant" EMS option

I'm in the planning stages of building a low to moderate power ( sub 200whp ) 2002 NB
I understand that MS is the first choice however I want it to remain OBDII "Compliant" I don't want the hassle of swapping stuff out once a year for inspection.
the plan so far is
-GT2560-ish sized turbo (maybe a 13t or 14b)
-Sch40 Log-ish manifold
-Injectors ? not sure yet 450cc+?
-Intercooler..yes just not sure what yet..

what are my options ?
-MS side by side with the factory ecu (Seems Like a pain)
-E Manage (outdated?)
-F/IC-6 (Works but quirky)
-FM VooDoo box (no tunability ?)
-TDR Fuel and timing cards ?

Something else ?
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:33 PM
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You won't find anything that is OBD2 complaint that support larger injectors.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:43 PM
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Welcome to 2019, we've been pursuing the "cake and eat it too" yellow brick road for over 30 years.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:01 PM
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Maybe "Compliant" isn't the best description

Thats why I was looking at the injector signal modifyers my thought as foolish as it maybe is let the OEM computer take care of everything out of boost and the doohickie to handle in boost signal modification
I understand that is not the optimal setup but a safe workable option is what Im look at
If said doohickie has no effect (save for injector scaling correction) out of boost the car shouldn't have any issues with TX DPS inspection or the like .
or am I missing something else
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:32 PM
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I'll be nice, so here's the bottom line: do you want to suffer with a terrible setup for 364 DAYS OF EACH YEAR to avoid about 1-2 hours of work ONE DAY PER YEAR
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
You won't find anything that is OBD2 complaint that support larger injectors.
I had an nb2 running a begi Xede with RC550 injectors
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
I had an nb2 running a begi Xede with RC550 injectors
I mean if you want to deal with a project that Shiv gave up on without finishing, and then rely on [email protected] Tuning then sure the Xede is an option. I can say back in 2009/2010 when I was trying to help a friend out with it in MD it was complete trash. He ended up swapping to a MS and was much happier over all.

I would bet you invest less time swapping back to stock once a year and then back to boost, then trying to get a Xede to work without throwing CEL's or any other parallel ecu.

SonoftheHill can convert from 300whp MKTurbo setup back to stock in about 2 hours, and then another 2 hours back to boosted.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I mean if you want to deal with a project that Shiv gave up on without finishing, and then rely on [email protected] Tuning then sure the Xede is an option. I can say back in 2009/2010 when I was trying to help a friend out with it in MD it was complete trash. He ended up swapping to a MS and was much happier over all.

I would bet you invest less time swapping back to stock once a year and then back to boost, then trying to get a Xede to work without throwing CEL's or any other parallel ecu.

SonoftheHill can convert from 300whp MKTurbo setup back to stock in about 2 hours, and then another 2 hours back to boosted.
oh, i totally agree with you on the trash part, that setup sucked, had un predictable afr in boost, and did throw CEL's.
I got rid of that car in a hurry, for the above and some other issues it had.
Out of boost was oem silky smooth though.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:00 PM
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I run a speeduino in parallel with the factory ECU on a 98 F150. Works just fine on there. If I had to keep OBD on my miata I would go parallel with MS3.

The only significant downside I see is the lack of documentation when compared to standalone setups.

I still haven't figured out why everyone hates on the parallel arrangement.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:37 PM
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How long have you been working for the EPA Partsguy?

If it pleases the crown, might we modify the vehicles we pay taxes to own, taxes to drive, taxes to fuel and taxes to modify?
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:48 PM
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So with that said I guess MS3 it will be, with the day of conversion a year

I guess that would mean swap ECU and injectors, re-install the MAF, reinstall the stock O2 sensors and wire the waste gate open ? is there anything else that Im missing
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisLol View Post
How long have you been working for the EPA Partsguy?

If it pleases the crown, might we modify the vehicles we pay taxes to own, taxes to drive, taxes to fuel and taxes to modify?

I in no way shape or form work for the EPA
I was attempting to avoid the parts swap dance once a year
My last project involved that and I wanted to avoid that this time if at all possible .
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV View Post
The only significant downside I see is the lack of documentation when compared to standalone setups.

I still haven't figured out why everyone hates on the parallel arrangement.
re-read your own post
repeat


the "road less traveled" is almost always for a reason. any time you add oe ecu into the mix, at least with this platform, the result is two systems that are full time fightin each other
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:03 PM
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What does the law say about an ECU swap to one from another car that supports OBD codes - eg. find a factory ECU from a 4 cyl turbo car that can be reflashed to do whatever like some of the more modern mitsubish / subaru ECUs?

I would guess it's not legal, but would return the relevant OBD codes when queried?
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:06 PM
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here in CA, where it's probably the strictest, it says you cant modify anything at all, ever, for any reason. even if you set it up such that the car ran cleaner, more environmentally friendly, and returned all smog compliance protocols, they are by law required to fail you and deem you a "gross polluter" if they see anything other than OEM or CARB EO certified components.

I'll save everyone some time here: it's all about the laws, which exist primarily to make more money. no one actually cares about the environment or even safety for that matter
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Partsguy22 View Post
I in no way shape or form work for the EPA
I was attempting to avoid the parts swap dance once a year
My last project involved that and I wanted to avoid that this time if at all possible .
Good to hear.

0 previous posts and your first thread deals with gathering information about what ECU or what methods can be used to defeat EPA mandates.
Believe it or not, they do things like this.

*dons tinfoil hat and stares at sky looking for black helicopters*

My simple advice: Move to a state that encroaches upon your freedoms less. Vote with your tax dollars. Actually voting doesn't do **** anymore.
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisLol View Post
Good to hear.

0 previous posts and your first thread deals with gathering information about what ECU or what methods can be used to defeat EPA mandates.
Believe it or not, they do things like this.

*dons tinfoil hat and stares at sky looking for black helicopters*

My simple advice: Move to a state that encroaches upon your freedoms less. Vote with your tax dollars. Actually voting doesn't do **** anymore.
I can see where i came off like that and I apologize
its just that this is the part of this project that had me wondering the most
The parts and fab side of things are trivial , its the making it run and stay in one piece
as far s moving to a free state ...90+% of Texas has no emission testing I am just lucky enough to live in part that does
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
re-read your own post
repeat


the "road less traveled" is almost always for a reason. any time you add oe ecu into the mix, at least with this platform, the result is two systems that are full time fightin each other
Building a speeduino, installing it in parallel, and tuning it for my f150 was not any harder than building and tuning the MS3X for my miata.

I haven't done a miata in parallel but from what I've seen it would have been even easier. I haven't done it though so it's entirely possible for me to be wrong.

I'll leave it at that.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV View Post
I run a speeduino in parallel with the factory ECU on a 98 F150. Works just fine on there. If I had to keep OBD on my miata I would go parallel with MS3.

The only significant downside I see is the lack of documentation when compared to standalone setups.

I still haven't figured out why everyone hates on the parallel arrangement.
A ton of us ran MS in parallel with stock ecus from 2006-2009. When I first went the MS route we couldn't run standalone at the time. Y8s spent a a ton of time trying to get a MS3 to run in parallel on his NB2 and not throwing CELs and had very little success. You can search his post history in 2010-2012 and possibly find some of his old threads about the troubles he had.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:22 PM
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The thought occurs that if given enough outputs from MS you could in theory send a "conditioned" signal to the original ecm to keep it happy .

Maybe ?
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