Stock ECU fuel management
I will be installing a stock MSM turbo to my '04 Miata LS. This will be a entry level turbo upgrade. I want to run ~ 7-8 psi boost and maintain my stock ECU. What will be my fuel/ignition concerns and the most cost effective way to address them? Thanks.
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Your fuel / ignition concerns will be that the stock ECU is woefully incapable of compensating for boost.
While you can absolutely pile on several bandaids to prevent it from blowing up, by the time you've actually managed to build a halfway drivable car that doesn't buck when you transition into boost or blow smoke every time you shift you could have just bought yourself a standalone ECU for the same price (or less...). |
Phil, where do you live, and what are the emission-testing requirements, if any?
The most cost-effective solution depends largely on your answer to the above, as well as to how comfortable you are with electronics, software, engine-tuning, etc. At the low end of the scale, you could install a rising-rate fuel pressure regulator (such as the complete BEGI fuel system, with FPR and pump) and just throw on an adjustable crank trigger wheel so you can dial in a few degrees of static retard. Moving up in the world, there are a number of piggyback solutions which, to some degree or another, work. Then at the upper end of the scale you have "standalone" ECUs, which completely replace the stock ECU and can properly drive larger injectors, integrate feedback from a wideband exhaust gas sensor, etc. Megasquirt, Hydra, etc., fall in this this category. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 957614)
Phil, where do you live, and what are the emission-testing requirements, if any?
The most cost-effective solution depends largely on your answer to the above, as well as to how comfortable you are with electronics, software, engine-tuning, etc. At the low end of the scale, you could install a rising-rate fuel pressure regulator (such as the complete BEGI fuel system, with FPR and pump) and just throw on an adjustable crank trigger wheel so you can dial in a few degrees of static retard. Moving up in the world, there are a number of piggyback solutions which, to some degree or another, work. Then at the upper end of the scale you have "standalone" ECUs, which completely replace the stock ECU and can properly drive larger injectors, integrate feedback from a wideband exhaust gas sensor, etc. Megasquirt, Hydra, etc., fall in this this category. How about the FM Voodoo box w/ crank trigger wheel? |
Originally Posted by PhilM
(Post 957583)
I will be installing a stock MSM turbo to my '04 Miata LS. This will be a entry level turbo upgrade. I want to run ~ 7-8 psi boost and maintain my stock ECU. What will be my fuel/ignition concerns and the most cost effective way to address them? Thanks.
If you want to keep the stock ecu then emanage blue with an autotune/clamp is an elegant and cost effective solution. My second hand blue and diy clamp cost less than 100$ and works well up to 460 cc injectors. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 957614)
throw on an adjustable crank trigger wheel so you can dial in a few degrees of static retard.
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I've got a complete chassis and engine harness plus ECU from a 04 MSM sitting in my garage. If you want to figure out the wiring and find all the sensors, I'd sell it to you cheap. That'll get you an OBDII compliant ECU, if that's your thing.
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 957664)
I've got a complete chassis and engine harness plus ECU from a 04 MSM sitting in my garage. If you want to figure out the wiring and find all the sensors, I'd sell it to you cheap. That'll get you an OBDII compliant ECU, if that's your thing.
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I would suggest a ms2 from Reverant. Trust me, its worth it, and only a couple hundred more than the stupid band aids would cost you
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You actually got a lot of good answers from these guys. I'm surprised you didn't get instaban.
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MSM turbo fuel management
Originally Posted by slmhofy
(Post 957694)
You actually got a lot of good answers from these guys. I'm surprised you didn't get instaban.
p.s. I see you went with the Turbosmart BPV...the 38 mm is about 1 1/2". How much boost are you running? |
Originally Posted by PhilM
(Post 957620)
I didn't think a rrfpr would work on a '04 miata fuel system (no return line).
It does work, you just have to place the aux pump up front under the hood, and create a recirculating loop, in which the RRFPR's dump line feeds back into the aux pump inlet.
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 957653)
I'm not so sure that would be a good idea on a '04.
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Originally Posted by PhilM
(Post 957758)
I see in your signature your using the Reverant MS2 on your 04 MSM Miata. Did you have much experience with tuning or are you taking it to a dyno?
p.s. I see you went with the Turbosmart BPV...the 38 mm is about 1 1/2". How much boost are you running? EDIT: Given that. I have learned a lot over the past 6 months with the unit and how to tune with not a lot of prior knowledge. And I went with the larger BPV because I'm running a much larger turbo and the forge wasn't cutting it. Plus I'm running 15-16psi. And the motor is coming out thursday for new rods and I'm going to be bumping it up to 20-23ish psi afterwards. |
'04 Miata to MSM turbo conversion
Since I am adding the MSM Miata turbo to my N/A '04 Miata, I have only (1) IAT sensor available to insert into the intake piping (I think the stock MSM turbo setup has (2) IAT sensors). Should the (1) IAT sensor in my setup go right after the MAF on the coldside (before turbo) or in the TB inlet pipe (charge pipe)? Shouldn't the MAF always be before the turbo on the coldside inlet pipe?
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It depends on what you run for engine management. With an MS you don't need the maf at all anymore, and best place for the ait is between the ic and tb
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I would go with an MS if I were you and a reverant built one sounds like your best option. That is what I run in my MSM and I had no experience with soldering, wiring, or tuning before I bought my MS2 from rev. He sets them up so well that if you can't install it in a weekend then you shouldn't be working on cars.
My car runs well and I picked up a shit ton of midrange over the stock MSM ecu. |
04 N/A Miata conversion to MSM turbo
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 957860)
It depends on what you run for engine management. With an MS you don't need the maf at all anymore, and best place for the ait is between the ic and tb
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Yes.
Not the tps, but the map and ait sensors. |
Originally Posted by PhilM
(Post 957678)
Thanks, but a little more than what I want to take on.
I've got a DIYPNP in my 00 and I wish I'd held out for one of Reverants enhanced MS2 units. He builds a great product and consistently gets positive comments. They are more expensive, but the extra features are pretty bauce. |
Originally Posted by PhilM
(Post 957931)
I can eliminate the MAF completely by going with a Reverant MS2 setup? Use the TBS for mapping?
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