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Old 06-24-2015, 08:14 PM   #1
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Default Wells vTPS issue

Hey guys, I bought an MS3x from Braineack and have been loving it, and learning how to tune, steadily but surely... Due to my oscillating idle I went ahead and pulled the plug on a Well TPS201. However, I am now having all kinds of issues... Braineack is helping me out, but I don't want to be solely dependent on him, and hope some of you guys could help me out.

I originally wired the Well TPS according to every thing I read. Here is a picture of me wiring the TPS to the factory harness.

PhotoBox

Using that wiring, when I turn the car to the 'on' position, the throttle position gauge reads 100% and the initial idle reading I get is 956. When I give the gas full throttle, the number doesn't change.

Using this wiring scheme the car would not turn on and just chug away... Interestingly enough, when I disconnect the TPS and get an initial idle number, I was getting 320, so the ECU is definitely reading something.


Braineack mentioned that if your initial idle number is higher then your full throttle number, that the ground and 5v wires are switched, so just as a test, I switched those two wires (leaving the green wire to the MS untouched).

When I switched those wires, my initial idle reading was now dropped to 70. When I go full throttle, I still get 70... the car turns on fine with those two wires switched... However, the full throttle number doesn't change.

Also, if I put the accel enrichment to 100% TPSmap, when I step on the gas, the RPMs do go up but very slowly and EXTREMELY bumpy. As for running 80/20% like most recommend, it doesn't really do much of change anything.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I do not have a voltmeter so I haven't gotten any volt outputs. And I also don't want to cut the stock hardness until I have a better idea of what the problem could potentially be.
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:49 PM   #2
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but did you actually use the calibration tool yet?



you have to tell ms what your voltage is at 0% and 100%.


turn car to ON.

press get current with closed.

go 100% WOT.

press get current with open.


values should look something like above. accept.
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Wells vTPS issue-80-tps_da23bc47fb687895da2429cf6cb2609fd0f5835b.png  
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:14 PM   #3
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Yes Braineack, that's what I meant by initial idle (closed throttle) and full throttle.

100% WOT means with the gas pedal all the way down, correct?

Also, I just said eff it and cut off the factory harness. When I did that and just coiled the wires together as followed:
TPS to Harness
Red to White and Green
Black to Black and White
Green to Red

per the Wells TPS instruction post... and when I did that the laptop read the ECU but for closed throttle and full throttle it read 0... so now I'm even more confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
but did you actually use the calibration tool yet?



you have to tell ms what your voltage is at 0% and 100%.


turn car to ON.

press get current with closed.

go 100% WOT.

press get current with open.


values should look something like above. accept.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:27 PM   #4
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Can anybody please please please help? I even went out and bought a BMW TPS that is used on the myturbomiata journal and wired it every single which way and no matter what my closed and full throttle readings are ALWAYS them same.

I bought the ECU from Braineack so it shouldn't be wired correctly, I just am frustrated to the nth degree... any help AT ALL will be greatly appreciated...
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:43 PM   #5
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Do you have a multimeter? If not, go buy one.

One wire at the TPS will read 5V when the car is on, that is the vref or red wire on the VTPS.

Next is the signal ground, it should show continuity through to any ground point on the car.

Last is the signal wire, it won't read anything. You can check it for continuity on pin 1N on the stock harness.

If I'm not mistaken, Brain can't set up a 1.6 ECU for both a vtps or the stock one. The stock one has to be ignored, and you must ground the input through a resistor to get a solid steady signal.

Unless this grounding resistor is external the ECU you've gotta go in it and remove the resistor, then wire 1N in place of the resistor.

Easy.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:03 PM   #6
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Brain is saying you need to calibrate the sensor. It is not clear from your post that you are doing this.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted75zcar View Post
Brain is saying you need to calibrate the sensor. It is not clear from your post that you are doing this.
That's what the problem is. When I go to calibrate the sensor I always get the same exact reading for closed throttle and full throttle. When I have the car on the 'on' position and no foot on the gas I will get a number and when I put my foot on the gas all the way I get the same number. No matter what combination of wire I do I always get the same exact reading for both of them.

I know the car is not meant to be on during this process, but I also get the same reading for both the closed and full throttle positions while the car is on.

Both the Wells TPS and the BMW TPS would not give me a different reading for the full throttle position. It was always the same number.

Sometimes the closed throttle position was a low number like it was suppose to be (around 80 or so) and sometimes it was high (852) which Braineack said was due to switching 2 of the wires around so that the full throttle position and the closed throttle position switched... but even in the instances where the closed throttle number was high, putting my foot on the gas didn't change the number.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:11 PM   #8
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The unit was wired so that the stock TPS would not work, and Braineack has confirmed he wired the unit for a vTPS. I will get a multimeter tomorrow and test the wires out... however, it is still baffling that ever possible wire connection would not give me a different open and closed throttle position, since technically speaking, one of the combinations has to be correct.

Thanks for that answer though, it is going to really come in handy tomorrow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Do you have a multimeter? If not, go buy one.

One wire at the TPS will read 5V when the car is on, that is the vref or red wire on the VTPS.

Next is the signal ground, it should show continuity through to any ground point on the car.

Last is the signal wire, it won't read anything. You can check it for continuity on pin 1N on the stock harness.

If I'm not mistaken, Brain can't set up a 1.6 ECU for both a vtps or the stock one. The stock one has to be ignored, and you must ground the input through a resistor to get a solid steady signal.

Unless this grounding resistor is external the ECU you've gotta go in it and remove the resistor, then wire 1N in place of the resistor.

Easy.
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Old 07-09-2015, 02:25 PM   #9
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check the 5V fuse!!!!!!!!!!
If you tried every combo of wiring, then you ended up at one point putting 5V on the wiper of the TPS which probably blew the fuse when it went to ground.

Its the PCB mount round thing on the main board of the MS3, it looks like a half of a pencil eraser, its usually redish.

Stop posting in the WTB and keep it here since this thread is in the correct section.
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Old 07-09-2015, 03:14 PM   #10
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the 5v for the TPS comes directly from the MS.

did you get your multimeter yet? if so I can walk you through what to check.
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Old 07-09-2015, 03:46 PM   #11
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Picked one up today at lunch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
the 5v for the TPS comes directly from the MS.

did you get your multimeter yet? if so I can walk you through what to check.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:43 PM   #12
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Okay guys so as an update, I am completely stumped.

On the original wiring harness I am getting 5v at the red wire, and have tested for continuity through the black wire to make sure its grounded correctly... I also ran my own ground for testing purposes. I got a new vTPS for testing and testing OHMs from red to black wire and get 3500-3800 which I heard is normal. So then I wire up the TPS red to red and black to black, and again make sure that when the car is on I get 5volts...

So at this point the vTPS should be on and I should be able to test voltage on the green wire when pressing the throttle. I get 0 voltage with closed and open throttle on the green wire of the TPS. When I had it all hooked up I tested voltage on pin 22 of the connector and also got 0 volts, which is why I tested the green wire in the first place.

If I switch the red and black wires, which I've been told multiple times that depending on how your MS is wired, those may be switched, I get 5 volts at the green wire for both open and closed throttle.

Because I originally made connection with the red wire from the harness to the green wire of the TPS, I bought a new TPS to test, since that could have shorted something... This was with a brand new Wells TPS201, and the readings were exactly the same as the other Wells TPS's I tried...

I am completely stumped and if someone could PLEASE help me I would be forever in your debt. I have done all the necessary testing and don't know where to go from here.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:48 PM   #13
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Silly question, but is the throttle rod turning the POT wiper?

If you physically turn the wiper with the sensor connected and powered, do you see a change in the signal voltage?
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:52 PM   #14
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Not a silly question, I have not tested that. So this would be the cable that is wound up to the left of the throttle body, right by the idle screw... correct?

That should be turning when the gas pedal gets pressed, I would think...?


Thanks for the response man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted75zcar View Post
Silly question, but is the throttle rod turning the POT wiper?

If you physically turn the wiper with the sensor connected and powered, do you see a change in the signal voltage?
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:02 PM   #15
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No, not the cable. The rod that is connected to the throttle plate protrudes out of the throttle body on the engine side and into a keyed opening in the TPS. As this rod turns, it turns the wiper on the TPS sensor, resulting in a voltage relative to the radial wiper position (degrees in a circle). Pull the TPS off of the throttlebody, but leave it connected to the pigtail. Use a screwdriver or other such implement to manually rotate the wiper in the sensor and look for changes in the signal wire voltage.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:25 PM   #16
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Just as an update, I have wired the TPS directly into the ECU to see if bypassing the wiring harness would fix the problem, however it didn't. I wired the Werll TPS red wire to pin 26 on the DB37 and wired the black wire on pin 1. When I check voltage with black tip to pin 1 and red tip to red 26 I get 5 volts like I am suppose to, however there is no voltage on the green wire.. well there is .032 but thats with the lowest decimal reading... and It doesn't change when I step on the throttle.

Something is definitely definitely wrong.

I havent had a chance to check the meter while manually turning the throttle, since I didn't have a second person.

I'm so defeated... any ideas?
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:31 PM   #17
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Since you have the TPS off of the throttle body and in your hand, you need to turn it with a screwdriver or something. Opening and closing the throttle only actuates the TPS when it is actually mounted to the throttle...

Please tell me youve done that?
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:53 AM   #18
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Whats the verdict Alec?
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:32 AM   #19
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Sorry for the late reply, was on vacation. I am glad to say the problem has been fixed! I eventually took off the whole entire throttle body because something wasn't right with everything.. It looked as if the end of the throttle body had been shaved off or sawed off, although not to sure why since the BMW tps wouldn't get past the engine head).

However, long story short, I guess I didn't have the Well's TPS screwed down far enough for the throttle to catch and turn it.. I drilled it down more and it was able to read correctly, but it looked a hot mess and kept giving different numbers so I just put the BMW TPS on and it had no issues.

Thanks everyone for all the help!
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:12 PM   #20
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good news!
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