1.6 piston (Sealed Power?) - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-08-2014, 02:11 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default 1.6 piston (Sealed Power?)

Im currently in the debate of building my 1.6(lost compression on one cylinder) or doing a 1.8 swap(having a difficult time finding a 1.8 in my area). Engine is already removed and torn down so i know what all needs replacing

Anyway, Ive been looking into pistons and I know all i need to know about the forged setups(supertech, JE, Wiseco, etc) and if i were to spend $400 on pistons id go ahead and get one of those rather than oem because i am running a turbo. But when searching i found these pistons on ebay that are made by sealed power. I have not found any info on the pistons made by them only the piston rings, but i know they are cast so they are similar to stock but only are $100 new and 78.5mm bore(which i need).

My reason for considering them is i know that stock pistons can handle my power goals(200-220whp for now, maybe 275-300in the distant future). Another thing is that if in the future i decided to build a 1.8(when i find one) I would have less lost into building the 1.6 with rods(which i could move to the 1.8) and pistons(which are specific to the engine).

My most important question is has anyone had experience with theses pistons? And my final question i need advice on is do i just go all out with the 1.6 or should i keep it on more of a budget because these pistons will work for my goals?

BTW I am fine with the power characteristics of the 1.6 and dont mind having the lack of low end that the 1.8 would offer as this is my weekend play car and ive grown up racing two stroke dirtbikes so i love to keep an engine singing like you have to with the 1.6
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 02:24 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Staunton, Va
Posts: 2,407
Total Cats: 200
Default

This isn't a two stroke dirt bike, and I don't think that the 1.6 is capable of anymore sustained rpm than a 1.8. With the engine already out, it would be kind of foolish to put a 1.6 back in. Everyone likes to route (rout, root) for the underdog, but this is not the right time. Whatever you do to a 1.6, will yield more power from a 1.8. Its that simple ..... ebay. Easy 1.8 find. Lots of sellers will ship for very cheap.
ryansmoneypit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 02:44 PM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Yea, I agree with everything you said, but one thing i forgot to mention is I am on a budget (~$1000) so its either do a 1.8 swap and keep it stock(which sucks bc id have to do a build later when the funds allow or live with the the lower power build) or put the same money into the 1.6 and never have to worry about reaching the power limit(for myself) and only need to do regular maintenance after it goes back in.

Remember im not going for the most power i can and if the 1.6 is capable for less why not? I hope that makes sense.

Also to do the 1.8 swap, if I managed to get an engine for $200 from pullapart, it will still be over $1000 to get it in without any mods at all and id still be limited by my turbo(gt2554r) so basically it would cost $1000 MORE to get to the 250hp+ range on the 1.8. That is why i am having trouble justifying going all in for the 1.8. also i need this car together so its not taking up garage space at my parents house and i can build the 1.6 over the Christmas Holidays where I'd have to wait at least another month so save up another $1k for the 1.8 build lol

And generally you can sell an old engine but mine is in need of repairs so there is little to I can get back from that to help offset cost
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 02:56 PM   #4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Oh, and the two stroke reference was just stating that i enjoy the challenge of having to keep an engine in its peak power to make it fast(which i only autocross so sustained high rpms isnt really something the car will see anyway).

Idk how much you guys have experience with bikes but there is generally a very small range on a bike that has usable power(10k-13kRPM on a 125 usually)
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 04:41 PM   #5
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,878
Total Cats: 344
Default

Building a 1.6 is stupid. The 1.8 is better in every way (except for a tiny bit of weight), and you'll never get those 200ccs back. All the money you spend on machine work, rings, bearings, head gasket, etc to build the 1.6 now is wasted when you want to go to a 1.8 later.

Unless you're competing in a series where the rules favor the 1.6, I can't see any reason to ever build one.

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 04:58 PM   #6
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 113
Default

I agree, a total waste of money. Buy another stock 1.6 and throw it in if you are poor.
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 05:08 PM   #7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Alright I know the consensus that a 1.8 is better, I'm not trying to start another debate thread. It's my choice what motor I use and trust me if it wasn't bc of the money I'd do a 99/00 1.8 swap and build it in a heartbeat. And btw, no I'm not poor, I'm a mechanical engineer but I don't want to spend to much money on this car, I have other hobbies too and I'm trying to save up for a house lol.

But you guys have not answered my main question, has anyone ever used those pistons? What I do after that is for me to decide.
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 05:12 PM   #8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

I think I may buy the pistons rebuild the 1.6 sell it and buy a 1.8. This way I put maybe $200 into the engine get a stock engine I could actually sell rather than have a parts engine that nobody would want. I've posted out stuff and it's always more of pain than to just sell whole/running
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 05:15 PM   #9
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 113
Default

Nobody uses those pistons because building a 1.6 is ******* retarded. Why would you want stock composition pistons? Why the hell would you pay a shop a single dollar? Why would you not go to a junkyard and buy a $200 1.6 that will last till you can waste money on a 1.8. You supposedly aren't after rod bending territory levels of power, so why bother even popping a block open?

You've obviously already decided, so do whatever. Sure looks like a heap of wasted money on a 1.6 to me, and I drive the **** out of one.


Nobody with a brain will pay you more than $200 for a 1.6. This thread is lol
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 05:27 PM   #10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

If I was going to just put a stock 1.6 I already have one in a wrecked low miles car. Are you serious? I'd rather spend $400 on a rebuilt 1.6 than $200 on a junkyard one that has 180k miles bc at least you know that you can easily get 100k miles in a stock setup and you know the starting condition. You forget that there are people that don't want to modify their cars so they would pay to have a stock 1.6 in a 90-93 so they don't have to spend extra money on a 1.8 conversion on a car that will be a dd.

I'm really tired of you guys always bashing any thought other than the norm. It's what makes people different and each car unique.
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 06:05 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,687
Total Cats: 216
Default

These low post noobs are just spouting off the MTnet general consensus as an objective truth. I will agree with most of the users of this board that pouring money into a B6 is dumb. The BP is an all around better engine with the only exception being its **** poor rod-ratio, but that doesnt seem to be the limiting factor in reving these engines high.
Basically, dont bother with the B6 when down the road you will probably want to replace the entire drivetrain with 94+ parts. You would be better off to take that plunge now, instead of sinking money into the B6.

That being said
If you cant afford a BP swap right now, I see absolutely no reason why you shouldnt do a down and dirty OEM refresh/rebuild of your B6. Dont go buying forged pistons and rods, get some OEM replacements like you've been looking at, and slap it together. It wont last 100k miles, but it will run and hopefully not smoke too bad.

Try to minimize sunk costs as much as you can. A couple hundred bucks right now isnt going to matter much when a few years from now youre dropping a grand left and right for go-fast parts.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 06:19 PM   #12
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,371
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

You cannot properly build an engine for $400. Just bore, hone, pistons, and rings will eat that entire budget and then some. You still need a full gasket kit, rods, bearings, surfacing work, and that assumes you cut a bunch of corners and build a motor that will have virtually no resale value because you didn't touch the head in any way.

We think you have a bad idea. I'm genuinely unsure why people think that a forum is obligated to help them execute their bad ideas.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 06:24 PM   #13
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 113
Default

I agree with Sav, for exactly that reason.

Low post noobs, lol. You ever rebuild an engine before?
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 08:31 PM   #14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Sav, I already had a top end gasket set that i bought as a kit so all i would need would be the bottom end set ($110 from begi), I can get any machining done for free(surfacing bc i used to work on a formula sae team and have access to mills and lathes) and for boring i have a guy who only charges about $50 a cylinder and lastly i the pistons i found are only $100 for all four(sale on old stock) so yes i can properly rebuild an engine for $400 assuming the valves dont need to be replaced(still have to do a leak down and inspection but cant right now bc my car is at my parents house 3 hrs away).

That said yes I have built dozens of engines, some just rebuilds but at least half o dozen custom with port work, crankshaft mods(mostly strokers), valve work, secret headwork i cant just tell you guys, and some strange stuff.

The most notable was that for my senior design project we modified a triumph 675 motorcycle engine to have a displacement of 604cc(originally 675 but class rules in fsae are 610cc limit) designed a new intake(must have 20mm restrictor) and exhaust(has to be under 110db. Not only did we design it the frequencies were tuned specifically for 9500rpm peak power which is exactly what the results were. Only saw a loss of ~30% (~105hp to ~70hp) which is a huge accomplishment, many teams end up in the sub 50 range and terrible throttle response, ours was instantaneous and perfect torque curve. I should just show you the 150page report lol

So that being said i can make anything work and i love to modify engines, but i have a hard time setting huge amounts of money to do so. Most bikes i used to modify were $150 motors with 2.5 hp and i would mod them to almost 10hp and under $200 in extra parts(and they looked like stock, or as we call them in the pitbike world stock/mods)

I hope that helps you understand were i am coming from
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 08:40 PM   #15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Thanks Boogie, that exactly the type of response i was looking for. The only thing is that if i did forged pistons and rods on the B6 I would never go to the BP bc i really just want to be done with this build. I have the tendency that i move on to something else rather than keep messing with something i have got exactly were i want it. With this car ideally i only want 230hp or so as this is close to the limit on usable power in autox but i do want the ability to turn it up to almost 300hp on the street from time to time, im not all that crazy about shear hp numbers or even speed(i rarely even speed and i have a tuned MS3 on 21psi, i even get 30mpg most of the time in it lol) So all that said im not like some that get addicted to more and more power, if i was id buy 600cc sportbike for $5k and be completely satisfied haha (I had one and sold it bc it was to tempting to be stupid)
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 08:55 PM   #16
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,371
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.skywalker View Post
bottom end set $110 ... i have a guy who only charges about $50 a cylinder ... pistons i found are only $100 for all four(sale on old stock) so yes i can properly rebuild an engine for $400
Rings? Bottom end bearings? Head gasket? Rods?
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 09:06 PM   #17
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Ok fine I get it is over $400 to rebuild a stock engine which btw is not what my plan was to begin with. Thanks for that clarification

And so you know journal bearings if they have never been starved of oil and no signs of scoring they do not need to be replaced. The rings are only about $60 and I already told you I had all the gaskets for the head and that includes the head gasket
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 10:10 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,687
Total Cats: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I agree with Sav, for exactly that reason.

Low post noobs, lol. You ever rebuild an engine before?
Several.

Ive personally only participated in a few "slap-em-together" builds, but they have a remarkable success rate. Its obvious that the OP is not looking to build the best race car possible, this is an economic decision. If the cylinders look halfway decent I would just throw the thing together with a hone and ride out for a bit longer. There is not much to lose.

You can re-use a lot of ****. Hell you can reuse a headgasket if youre feeling ballsy. Yet again, Ive seen it done but wouldnt take the chance myself unless I owned a towtruck.
Lots of people reuse bearings. David Buschur says the secret to him making so much power is reusing bearings after polishing them with WD-40
But seriously, with an old engine like this one may even argue that reusing the bearings is the smart thing to do. Rebuilding the bottom end with new bearing without ever touching the crank with a mic and youre setting yourself up for more problems than just doing it the ghetto way.

It sounds like the Op is just looking to have some fun on the cheap and then probably sell the car. There is no incentive to do it up right.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 10:29 PM   #19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Yea, i would never put an engine back together without a new head gasket, that is asking for trouble, especially with a car that has 180k miles(Idk if the engine is original or not)

As of right now I am leaning towards the 1.8 swap, i just wanted to get some other opinions. Ive had every sugestion from 1.8, ls swap, to 13b lol

I am possibly going to check out a car at pull a part(they have a 95 but it is a 4hr drive each way) and maybe talk to a guy down the road from my parents who considered selling me two of his miatas, (94 and 97) one was wrecked the other had a blown headgasket, for $1000, i just dont need 4 miatas lol I have enough already.

BTW I dont plan on selling this car so that is why I want to make the right choice on the engine. Ive been debating this for a few weeks now and ive had the money to do this for even longer

Thanks guys
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 04:26 PM   #20
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 121
Total Cats: 2
Default

Ok, I'm gonna hold off on the 1.8 swap for a while so i can put more money into the 1.8 later and I'm going to rebuild the engine back to stock(with mild head P&P) and get a good tune dialed in before i swap, maybe around 200-210hp for now. This way i can build a 1.8 exactly the way i want it for the next year or two and when im done ill have the perfect setup. Also this way when i do pull the 1.6 I'll have a good, somewhat fresh, engine for my 90 when it goes out.

So to ease all you haters im not gonna build a 1.6. haha jk

Thanks guys
mr.skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Tags
1.6 thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:59 PM.