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1300 or 2000cc Injector dynamics and precision 600 or vibrant 550hp intercooler

 
Old 06-08-2014, 11:47 PM
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Unhappy 1300 or 2000cc Injector dynamics and precision 600 or vibrant 550hp intercooler

Looking for a little help after searching and ready several post on both topics. Basically trying to make a decision and need some help making it up.

Finally got the car on the track for a shake down and did some datalogging.

1st. I maxed my 1000cc injectors at 100% duty at 19psi running E85. I need more injector.

2nd. Intake air temps where reading from 180-200deg on a 80 deg day.. need more intercooler.

I apologize in advance if I just could not find any specifics on my level of power for what people are running reliably on a track. Everything I could find was around 350hp- 400hp max.

thank you in advance for any help.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:08 AM
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Sizing injectors is easy. What is your HP goal?
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:20 AM
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What a horrible, horrible decision to have to make. My condolences.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:22 AM
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Get the big ones.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:35 AM
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As far as power goals. No limit. Current turbo set up should be good to upper 20s psi. Which should get me to around 500hp at the wheels. I'm just sick of buying injectors every couple years because I upgrade something. I'm a little disappointed because I was told when I order my 1000cc they would be enough for the turbo on E85.

Intercooler size. I'm wondering what people Have found for hear soak on the track. Bigger isn't always better. I want to size it correctly so I'm not hurting my spool.

Last edited by 92mazdaspeed; 06-09-2014 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Missed words
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:44 AM
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Isn't Soviet running those injectors at likely quite a bit more power than what you're making?
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Isn't Soviet running those injectors at likely quite a bit more power than what you're making?

I'm not sure what he is running. I know nothing about his set up.
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Old 06-09-2014, 11:57 AM
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ID1000s, EFR, 29psi. ALLOFIT. You most certainly should not be maxing out those injectors at 19psi on that turbo.


https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ild-you-61522/
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:46 PM
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Go for the ID1300. They are much better tech than 2000cc.
For intercooler, I run a precision 600 and I like it. Although I expect there would be little difference between the two options (vibrant vs precision).
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
ID1000s, EFR, 29psi. ALLOFIT. You most certainly should not be maxing out those injectors at 19psi on that turbo.

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ild-you-61522/
I run 60psi base pressure though and I did pretty much max out the injectors at 460whp.
And he most certainly could be maxing out the injectors at 19psi if he has a good flowing head. I have a stock head so I run a lot of boost to compensate for shitty flow.

MY QUESTION is what transmission are you running?????
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Go for the ID1300. They are much better tech than 2000cc.
For intercooler, I run a precision 600 and I like it. Although I expect there would be little difference between the two options (vibrant vs precision).


I run 60psi base pressure though and I did pretty much max out the injectors at 460whp.
And he most certainly could be maxing out the injectors at 19psi if he has a good flowing head. I have a stock head so I run a lot of boost to compensate for shitty flow.

MY QUESTION is what transmission are you running?????

My question was (and i suppose i don't really know) is that we think he's making 460whp @ 19psi on a 3071? I'm not seeing it.
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
My question was (and i suppose i don't really know) is that we think he's making 460whp @ 19psi on a 3071? I'm not seeing it.
why not, even the normal GT3071r flows 50lb/min and the GTX3071r is closer to 56lb/min


EFR6758 flows 53lb/min
Attached Thumbnails 1300 or 2000cc Injector dynamics and precision 600 or vibrant 550hp intercooler-gtx3071randgt3071roverlap.jpg   1300 or 2000cc Injector dynamics and precision 600 or vibrant 550hp intercooler-67x80.jpg  
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:39 PM
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Damn the GTX3071r could flow 50lb/min at as low as 13psi (190kpa). Thats good for 450whp, I think.
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:48 PM
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I stand corrected. Apologies for shitting up the thread, clearly i'm just used to motors that flow even worse than BPs.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 92mazdaspeed View Post
As far as power goals. No limit. Current turbo set up should be good to upper 20s psi. Which should get me to around 500hp at the wheels. I'm just sick of buying injectors every couple years because I upgrade something. I'm a little disappointed because I was told when I order my 1000cc they would be enough for the turbo on E85.

Intercooler size. I'm wondering what people Have found for hear soak on the track. Bigger isn't always better. I want to size it correctly so I'm not hurting my spool.
1300's won't get you to 500whp on E85, though it will get you close. You're going to need 2000's if you're really looking for 500, or you are going to need 2-stage injection.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Damn the GTX3071r could flow 50lb/min at as low as 13psi (190kpa). Thats good for 450whp, I think.
Never going to happen. The only way you move 50lb/min at 13psi is through a bunch of big ports into a large-displacement motor (a quartet of BP ports does not qualify).

The best BPs are doing ~72-74lb.ft/L-atm, which means that at 13psi you're looking at a max of ~250wtq, which means you need ~8400rpm just to fall short by 50whp.

Soviet's car on a junkyard head at extremely high boost pressure (near maxing the turbo) is doing ~69lb.ft/L-atm ([email protected]). My old GT2871R setup at 17psi did 71lb.ft/L-atm ([email protected]). The math works for every legitimate dyno sheet I've ever seen.

OP needs more base fuel pressure, not more injector. He should have tons of headroom with ID1000s at 70psi base with 20-25psi and a referenced FPR.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Go for the ID1300. They are much better tech than 2000cc.
For intercooler, I run a precision 600 and I like it. Although I expect there would be little difference between the two options (vibrant vs precision).


I run 60psi base pressure though and I did pretty much max out the injectors at 460whp.
And he most certainly could be maxing out the injectors at 19psi if he has a good flowing head. I have a stock head so I run a lot of boost to compensate for shitty flow.

MY QUESTION is what transmission are you running?????
To answer the if its fully built. Yes, The head is fully built with 1mm oversized inconel and stainless valve with shim under bucket conversion with full spring kit. It,s fully ported and running 64mm matched throttle body. flows out just as well with full 3" outlet housing back magnaflow muffler and stainless CAT. Im boosting 18psi at 4700rpm and it justy keeps climing or would if I wasn't running out of injector.

Currently the stock 5speed. Have not decided on 6speed as they are not reliable at my level. Quafe 5 speed sets I guess break at this hp level as well. Kind of waiting for someone to do the leg work to figure out a t56 or t5 swap. Its got a 3.9 torsen from a 01.

I am also running 60psi base pressure on Full FM Flex Fuel big fuel Kit.
thats why im a little disapointed. When I ordered it I asked if the 1000cc can hadle 500+ hp

I called Precision and asked what the pressure drop of the 600hp incooler was and was very suprised that its upwards of 5psi. NOT GOOD. would have to get a bigger Turbo

Vibrant is claiming 1.5PSI drop on the 550hp cores. They also have updated the design to the offset vain design that Precision uses insted of strait threw.

Think im going with the Vibrant from Fab9 as it already has mounting tabs for the Miata.

As far as injectors the Price differance between 1300 and 2000 is $20. Im just worried about low rpm behavior of the massive 2000cc injectors.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:17 PM
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Wait.... doesn't the FM kit ship with the same pump that Soviet has so many issues with?
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Wait.... doesn't the FM kit ship with the same pump that Soviet has so many issues with?
Actually, its a great pump if you rewire it. I had issues with it because I was trying to run 90psi fuel pressure (60 base + 30 boost). If you run less boost you can run less pump, as long as its rewired.

p.s. unless you have a fuel pressure sensor there is no way you can confirm that you do, indeed, have 60psi fuel pressure in boost. It could be dropping towards redline.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
1300's won't get you to 500whp on E85, though it will get you close.
Wrong, sorry. Soviet is making 460whp on 1000s. 500whp on 1300s should be a piece of cake. You just need proper base pressure.

OP, does your FPR have a boost reference? Are you using an NB fuel system or something?

Something is wrong with your fuel system - there's no way you are maxing ID1000s at only 20psi. I ran them at 350whp at <70%DC with a proper fuel system.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
> proper fuel system.
Flyin Miata "big fuel kit" is an overpriced piece of ****, imo

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