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Old 08-07-2015, 02:09 PM   #41
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The thing with these swaps is they'll always nickle and dime you.
It's just the nature of the beast when doing a transplant.

Still pretty cool though. Well, for those that love that sort of thing ( )
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:14 PM   #42
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3-4k for a complete swap that makes 200whp and has the potential for lots more is kinda compelling.

That being said, I feel it is in kind of a weak spot between a turbo build and an LFX or LSX swap in terms of bang/buck. A run of the mill low 200whp turbo build on the stock block would be plenty reliable and cost a ton less to put together than this. It also won't involve all the usual swap related hassles.

Speaking of swap related hassles, why not just go for an LFX or LSX swap if you're going to do all that work?
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:17 PM   #43
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<p>Cost a ton less?</p><p>This swap will realistically cost 5-6k completed, not 3-4k. Nickel and dime, and all that.</p><p>To do a 200whp turbo build that'd be track reliable, you'll be in it at least the same money unless you DIY everything, in which case it's not really a fair comparison.</p><p>The work and cost to do an LFX swap is not even in the same realm as this. LSX is even more. Triple the cost and work for an LSx swap, at minimum.</p>
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:47 PM   #44
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No surprise that we get a lot of comparisons between the K swap and Ecotec swap. I think the Ecotec is a cool little engine and makes a lot more sense in a Miata than a J series, but it's really an apples to oranges comparison with the K.

What's the highest HP N/A ecotec motor making right now? The guys at MT at making 201whp with a ported head.

Guys make 300whp easily out of a K with stock bore and stroke, and the top K series drag cars are making 450+ N/A (no typo). Even our little setup makes 248whp with OEM pistons, head casting, with some cams.

If you "only" wanted 200whp out of a K, we can help you do that REAL cheap, with lots of room to grow from there.

The MT guys are great, I met them at MATG a few weeks ago and they were very cool guys with a nice product. Everyone wants a little something different, and more swap options are always good for the Miata community.
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:51 PM   #45
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can everyone just stop quoting "full swap" prices, at least until we have a couple "full swaps" done with proper documentation of costs?

people kept throwing the 15-20 grand figure around when we used to talk about LSx swaps, and it's been years and years and the amount of people that completed thairs within that budget could be counted on 1 hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Miata View Post
but it's really an apples to oranges comparison
Everything is an apples/oranges comparison. All these engines are different.

I don't think many people would want to even attempt big N/A power on an ecotec anyway
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:58 PM   #46
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I'm sure there's Ecotecs well into the 300s n/a, GM Performance supports them quite well.
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Old 08-07-2015, 04:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
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<p>Cost a ton less?</p><p>This swap will realistically cost 5-6k completed, not 3-4k. Nickel and dime, and all that.</p><p>To do a 200whp turbo build that'd be track reliable, you'll be in it at least the same money unless you DIY everything, in which case it's not really a fair comparison.</p>
I was saying it would cost a ton less to make a 200whp miata engine than it would to do this swap.

DIY is relevant because a lot of people here would go that route. DIY turbo involves way less headaches, tools and elbow grease than any of these swaps to complete. A moderately intelligent person with an instruction sheet and a set of craftsman tools can do a 10-15 psi turbo setup and give it a decent tune (especially with the easy availability of widebands). Over 200whp is easily possible on 10-12 psi with a super conservative tune.

To be track reliable with someone beating on it super hard for long periods of time, the devil is in the details. 10+ years ago, it was "common knowledge" that a 200ish whp miata would be dead reliable. No one knew that miata oil pumps were garbage under hard use. No one knew about turbo fasteners stretching. It took a lot of people beating on their cars very hard for a long time to discover these sorts of things. It's easy to guess that the ecotec will be ultra-reliable under hard track use, but the truth is that we don't really know yet.
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Old 08-07-2015, 05:40 PM   #48
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<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysBroken View Post
I was saying it would cost a ton less to make a 200whp miata engine than it would to do this swap.
</p><p>I'm aware, and I think you're wrong. But...</p><p>
Quote:
DIY is relevant because a lot of people here would go that route. DIY turbo involves way less headaches, tools and elbow grease than any of these swaps to complete. A moderately intelligent person with an instruction sheet and a set of craftsman tools can do a 10-15 psi turbo setup and give it a decent tune (especially with the easy availability of widebands). Over 200whp is easily possible on 10-12 psi with a super conservative tune. To be track reliable with someone beating on it super hard for long periods of time, the devil is in the details. 10+ years ago, it was &quot;common knowledge&quot; that a 200ish whp miata would be dead reliable. No one knew that miata oil pumps were garbage under hard use. No one knew about turbo fasteners stretching. It took a lot of people beating on their cars very hard for a long time to discover these sorts of things. It's easy to guess that the ecotec will be ultra-reliable under hard track use, but the truth is that we don't really know yet.
</p><p>...you do make a good point.</p>
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Old 08-07-2015, 06:25 PM   #49
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I think that's the point, though...we know the flaws of a turbo setup. The Ecotec swap has the potential to be within the same ballpark cost wise, offering similar-ish power but naturally aspirated. Maybe some serious flaws will appear in time.

Think about how many threads there have been with NA BP builds just to get to 160WHP. You're telling me those guys wouldn't be interested in the Ecotec setup (if it works)?


EDIT: Reread my post, I'm not even contributing anything. This thread is cool, you are all cool, I am the dumb.
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Old 08-07-2015, 06:37 PM   #50
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I smell what you're steppin in.

It costs 3-4000$ for 200whp anyway you slice it. Ecotec n/a. Turbo BP. N/A BP lol.
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Old 08-07-2015, 07:28 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
I'm sure there's Ecotecs well into the 300s n/a, GM Performance supports them quite well.
Maybe in the circle track midget cars, and that'll be done on straight meth with mechanical fuel injection and stock head ports if its being done. GM just skips the whole NA thing and just makes big powah with tarbos. Remember the GMPP build book for the ecotec outlines everything that breaks on your way to making 1500hp on the stock block casting.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:23 PM   #52
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These swaps are never what the parts cost. It depends on how crazy you go . My k swap sits at this

$3500 for swap kit
$1200 header
$1600 06 tsx motor
$7000 on supporting mods, 6speed,tomei lsd, fuel system,management,induction, cooling,ect.

Still have more to go, No motor swap is cheap if you want it nice.

Like the saying goes, cheap/fast/reliable pick two.
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:22 PM   #53
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This motor will make 240-250whp with a mildly ported head, cam and upgraded valvetrain. So if 250 is the magic number for people it can be done and still at a very affordable price range.

And to top it off A/C and power steering using Miata power steering pump are in the works as we speak.
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:35 PM   #54
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To someone more intimately involved in the project, does your swap involve an older cable actuated throttle body or do we have to install a drive by wire throttle pedal?
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:37 PM   #55
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I wonder if the supercharger bits off the LSJ would fit the 2.4? I know the intake manifold from the cobalt 2.4 would fit my 2.2 cobalt, the same as the LSJ/LNF intake mani would fit the 2.2...

So you could have a supercharged 2.4 ecotec for peanuts, LSJ takeoff stuff is dirt cheap.

Has to be fly by wire, no way there's an actual throttle cable on a GM VVT engine, right?
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:38 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh4One4 View Post
To someone more intimately involved in the project, does your swap involve an older cable actuated throttle body or do we have to install a drive by wire throttle pedal?
The picture on the previous page is an E throttle model. Those are a lot easier to find in junk yards and all the best ecotec motors besides the turbo one in the saab are electronic anyways.
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:45 PM   #57
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Yes, the 2.4 is a better motor but you really need the TVS1320 on the 2.4 the m62 is kind of small on the stock 2.0. I used to run a stock lsj blower on my l61 2.2 liter with the smallest pulley you could run without machining the snout and that was good for barely 12psi and like 225fwhp on a mustang dyno. Its also has zero chance of fitting unless you want the intake tubing in the dashboard.
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:49 PM   #58
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It's been forever since I rightly convinced myself a cobalt wasn't worth spending a single dollar on, haven't been back to cobaltss since.

Also, it will fit, everything fits if you are determined enough. Is it worth it? Probs not.

Albert Gary's 1971 Triumph TR-6 with Chevy Ecotec LSJ Supercharged Engine
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:55 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
It's been forever since I rightly convinced myself a cobalt wasn't worth spending a single dollar on, haven't been back to cobaltss since.

Also, it will fit, everything fits if you are determined enough. Is it worth it? Probs not.

Albert Gary's 1971 Triumph TR-6 with Chevy Ecotec LSJ Supercharged Engine
Go back and look at the last pictures posted in this thread, even that idea puts the intake tubing through the dashboard.
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Old 08-08-2015, 06:03 PM   #60
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Who's to say you don't turn the opposite direction with the throttle body, mount it opposite the upper shock mount. Brakes are probably in the way, maybe.

Hard to tell how much room between the valve cover and hood, too, could just go over.

Plenty of room for the LNF though, and that thing is no joke. I know nothing about hondas, but I'd stack a stock LNF on corn against a fully prepped K motor that probably costs more.

e85 tune from trifecta
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