99 mazda miata, Hard to start, shaken engine after head gasket replacement ~! - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-06-2012, 08:32 PM   #1
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default 99 mazda miata, Hard to start, shaken engine after head gasket replacement ~!

Hi,
I recently had a crack cylinder head so replaced it along the head gasket since everything has to be out anyways.
I bought the head off from crasiglist. I was told that it has 60K miles only. He bought it from project-G. However, he totaled his miata before putting it on. That's the reason he sold it
after doing all the installing, it turns out not so great
Engine is hard to start and the engine is a bit shaken.
some smoke coming out from the oil cap. (Hard to tell from the video below)
and it makes a ton of noise..
Would you help? please
O..i forgot to mention. It is a 99 miata with 89k miles. thanks
below is a youtube video that i took.

http://youtu.be/BeRTT0j0iq8

new information updated
finally i bought the right feeler gauges.
Below is the numbers that i got. Do they look right?
Intake: 0.06 / 0.07 / 0.07 / 0.09 / 0.07 / 0.08 / 0.08 / 0.08
Exhaust: 0.08 / 0.09 / 0.08 / 0.07 / 0.06 / 0.09 / 0.10 / 0.07
It looks like exhaust side is a bit too tight, right?
according to Bog's rule is 0.007-0.009 on the intake
0.010-0.012 on the exhaust

Last edited by thomas18a; 06-15-2012 at 03:36 AM.
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 08:43 PM   #2
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,524
Total Cats: 27
Default

Did you check valve lash or mix up any shims on install? Or, better question, did you have the head inspected before installing it?
flounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 08:56 PM   #3
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

i did not have the head inspected because i was tight on $$ after paying for the head. i am kind of new to maita. How do we check the valve lash? I did not even take off the camshaft because i was too scared to mix up any parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flounder View Post
Did you check valve lash or mix up any shims on install? Or, better question, did you have the head inspected before installing it?
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 09:07 PM   #4
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South East Florida
Posts: 690
Total Cats: 6
Default

Can screwing up the timing belt do this?
94mx5red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 09:13 PM   #5
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

I though about timing as well.
I double checked the timing already yesterday. It looks fine. everything line up right

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94mx5red View Post
Can screwing up the timing belt do this?
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 09:50 PM   #6
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
BogusSVO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pensacola Fla.
Posts: 590
Total Cats: 191
Default

I listened to your vid... yes your valve lash is off.

Check and set as needed

My rule of thumb is .007-.009 on the intake
.010-.012 on the exhaust

The FSM may state a diffrent spec.

Also run a compression test and a leak down.

As loose as that one sounds ( I would guess .020-.022 loose) you may have a slightly tinked valve.

But do not rev it any more... if you spit the puck you will have real issues.

Do you still have your old head? with the buckets and pucks?
BogusSVO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 11:17 PM   #7
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

thanks, I have been following up ur threats. They are knowledgeable.
I followed all ur step to replace the head. Good Job..
I dont know anything about the valve job. if you dont mind, would u tell me how it can be set it back to ur rule?
yes, i do still have everything ( Camshaft, head, valve, Intake manifold, 4 OEM injector..) they will be up for sale after my car runs fine.
thanks for your advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
I listened to your vid... yes your valve lash is off.

Check and set as needed

My rule of thumb is .007-.009 on the intake
.010-.012 on the exhaust

The FSM may state a diffrent spec.

Also run a compression test and a leak down.

As loose as that one sounds ( I would guess .020-.022 loose) you may have a slightly tinked valve.

But do not rev it any more... if you spit the puck you will have real issues.

Do you still have your old head? with the buckets and pucks?
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 11:46 PM   #8
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
BogusSVO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pensacola Fla.
Posts: 590
Total Cats: 191
Default

Its easier with the head off the car.....

You will need...

Set of feeler gauges
Notebook and pen
Venier Calipers (Cheap Harbor freight ones will work)
Sharpie marker
Small pic or flat head screwdriver
Basic hand tools
Rags
18 x 18 chunk of cardboard, clean
And time......

First go over to the cracked head and pull the cams out, then lift the buckets.

Once the buckets are out, flip the "pucks" out of the top of the byckets with the small screwdriver/pic

Whipe clean the pucks with the rag and place on the cardboard.

Take the calipers and measure the thickness of each puck

Stack the same thickness pucks together on the card board, write thickness of the puck on the cardboard.

Now, I bet there is a way to do this with the cams left in the head, but I do not know it...

Gain acess to the timing belt, and pull the VC off

Now with #1 cyl at TDC, rotate the crank 90*, this moves the pistons to mid stroke in the block.

Drop the timing belt

Now find a ratchet and socket that fits the cam gear bolt.


Take the note book and pen, Draw 2 colums of 8 circles, and mark one end front

One colum of circles is the intake pucks the other colum is the exhaust pucks.

Pick a side to start with, Say Intake side first.

Rotate the cam, so the heel is closest to the puck, now with the feeler gauge, measure the clearance between cam and puck. write down the clearance by the circle in the notebook.

Repete untill you have all the clearances measured for that side.

If any of the clearances are in spec, take a sharpie marker and draw a hash mark on the VC rail, this just lets you know that it is ok and not to mess with it.

Now pull the cam caps and cams.

Now one at at time, flip the puck out, wipe clean amd measure it.

Now go to your stock pile and find a thicker or thinner shim to get the clearance you want.

it will go sort of like this.....

Measured cleance/lash .016
Spec is .010
The puck you pulled out is .100 thick
to get the cleance find a puck about .106

Now move to the next one....

once the one side is done, install the cam, and torque the cam caps

Spin the cam 3-4 full turns... Measure the clearance again.... repete till they are in spec or as close as you can get them. An extra .001 or .002 loose or tight will not kill the engine.

Now do the other side.

(if you are smart you will keep the extra pucks in a safe place)

The closer the lash is all the way down one side, the smoother the engine will run.
BogusSVO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 12:40 AM   #9
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

excellent! write up
thanks! I am going to buy the tool and work on it this weekend.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
Its easier with the head off the car.....

You will need...

Set of feeler gauges
Notebook and pen
Venier Calipers (Cheap Harbor freight ones will work)
Sharpie marker
Small pic or flat head screwdriver
Basic hand tools
Rags
18 x 18 chunk of cardboard, clean
And time......

First go over to the cracked head and pull the cams out, then lift the buckets.

Once the buckets are out, flip the "pucks" out of the top of the byckets with the small screwdriver/pic

Whipe clean the pucks with the rag and place on the cardboard.

Take the calipers and measure the thickness of each puck

Stack the same thickness pucks together on the card board, write thickness of the puck on the cardboard.

Now, I bet there is a way to do this with the cams left in the head, but I do not know it...

Gain acess to the timing belt, and pull the VC off

Now with #1 cyl at TDC, rotate the crank 90*, this moves the pistons to mid stroke in the block.

Drop the timing belt

Now find a ratchet and socket that fits the cam gear bolt.


Take the note book and pen, Draw 2 colums of 8 circles, and mark one end front

One colum of circles is the intake pucks the other colum is the exhaust pucks.

Pick a side to start with, Say Intake side first.

Rotate the cam, so the heel is closest to the puck, now with the feeler gauge, measure the clearance between cam and puck. write down the clearance by the circle in the notebook.

Repete untill you have all the clearances measured for that side.

If any of the clearances are in spec, take a sharpie marker and draw a hash mark on the VC rail, this just lets you know that it is ok and not to mess with it.

Now pull the cam caps and cams.

Now one at at time, flip the puck out, wipe clean amd measure it.

Now go to your stock pile and find a thicker or thinner shim to get the clearance you want.

it will go sort of like this.....

Measured cleance/lash .016
Spec is .010
The puck you pulled out is .100 thick
to get the cleance find a puck about .106

Now move to the next one....

once the one side is done, install the cam, and torque the cam caps

Spin the cam 3-4 full turns... Measure the clearance again.... repete till they are in spec or as close as you can get them. An extra .001 or .002 loose or tight will not kill the engine.

Now do the other side.

(if you are smart you will keep the extra pucks in a safe place)

The closer the lash is all the way down one side, the smoother the engine will run.
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 02:28 AM   #10
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

Hi,
I got a quick question for you. Is that normal that smoke blowing out from the oil cap when the engine is hot? thz
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas18a View Post
excellent! write up
thanks! I am going to buy the tool and work on it this weekend.
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 10:56 AM   #11
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
BogusSVO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pensacola Fla.
Posts: 590
Total Cats: 191
Default

Smoke? or oil vapor?

Now that the lash is set, run a leak down test.
Post the results.
BogusSVO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 03:26 PM   #12
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

Sorry for the late reply, i just bought the feeler gauge this morning. I checked the gap between the camshaft and puck. I used the smallest gauge, but it did not fit in. Did i do anything wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogusSVO View Post
Smoke? or oil vapor?

Now that the lash is set, run a leak down test.
Post the results.
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 03:32 PM   #13
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

O sorry, i double checked ur write up. I skipped some steps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas18a View Post
Sorry for the late reply, i just bought the feeler gauge this morning. I checked the gap between the camshaft and puck. I used the smallest gauge, but it did not fit in. Did i do anything wrong?
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 04:18 PM   #14
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

i followed ur step. I tried to fit the feeler in between the cam and puck. but it did not fit. Did i do anything wrong?
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 07:07 PM   #15
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default


is it the right way to measure?
Attached Thumbnails
99 mazda miata, Hard to start, shaken engine after head gasket replacement ~!-2wrpuz5.jpg  
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #16
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,524
Total Cats: 27
Default

Yeah, that's the right way. It's best to have the lobe facing away from the tappet. If you can't fit even the thinnest feeler in between, then you have issues that need to be fixed. Make a chart and record all 16. You may be able to swap them around to fix the problem, or you may have messed up valve seats and/or damaged valves.
flounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 01:20 AM   #17
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

http://youtu.be/rmEtGkpg2SQ
this is how i checked the gap, but no luck, it cant fit the thinnest feeler
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 05:56 PM   #18
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,524
Total Cats: 27
Default

You bought it with the cams installed already? Any history on the head?

My suggestion is pulling it back off and having a shop give it a once over.
flounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 08:21 PM   #19
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

I bought the head off from crasiglist. I was told that it has 60K miles only. He bought it from project-G. However, he totaled his miata before putting it on. That's the reason he sold it
How much would that be for fixing it? i have to save some $$ before taking any further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flounder View Post
You bought it with the cams installed already? Any history on the head?

My suggestion is pulling it back off and having a shop give it a once over.
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 08:42 PM   #20
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Total Cats: -72
Default

if i swap everything from the old head, would that work?
thomas18a is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
91 1.6l turbo complete part out. Tony the Tiger Miata parts for sale/trade 63 12-29-2016 03:23 AM
[CT] 1999 Mazda Miata 10th Anniversary Edition - $5800 Jike Spingleton Cars for sale/trade 3 09-20-2016 05:33 PM
No spark while cranking? navalhawkeye MEGAsquirt 9 10-07-2015 08:10 PM
Mystery Engine Trouble. Halp, mt.net! vehicular General Miata Chat 12 09-14-2015 04:17 PM
Project DDoS: '99 "Budget" boost build ProjectDDoS Build Threads 1 09-09-2015 02:52 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:07 AM.