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Old 11-25-2008, 12:38 PM   #41
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I can has please?
seriously, had to change my pants. going to a dyno with a fellow local autox'er with his elise turned into an exige and i'll be very jealous since itll be pre-boost and i know i have no power right now :(



but this thread=
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:11 PM   #42
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Mike made more than 400whp for a while. He has dyno videos. Pump gas IIRC. His 02 doesn't have a CAS. I think you're confusing him with someone else. And lets just say when it comes to all out built high HP miatas, he's probably ahead of you.
I just saw the videos so I'll retract the statement regarding if he did it or not. I'll stand by the statement that 400+ on a dyno doesn't mean **** for a street car. I've seen 100s of dynos of cars making big power the sucked as daily drivers on the street and I'll stand by that statement.

My '01 had a CAS so what's your point?

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Engine/Tuning Problem

I don't need to build an all out high HP Miata. Having one that's streetable, or remotely reliable as a daily driver is futile. That's why I chose the LS6 swap. Factory power from a car that makes 375 without a sweat for 100k miles was a better solution. If I want 450, I'll throw in a cam, tune and upgraded valve springs.

So how many 400+ whp 4 banger Miatas are out there? You can probably count them on two hands. Now tell me if ANY of them have 10k street miles at over 400 whp.

And if that's on pump gas, it's on 100% meth too. I'll guarantee he's not making 475 on good ol Texas 93-4.

Frank
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:41 PM   #43
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Damn Frank way to crush my dream. Yes, I want to DD this car because I love driving it through the rain in rush hour traffic, parking it on the streets in DC etc. I'm hoping that it will survive happily at 19psi WG spring and then when someone needs a spanking or the roads are nice and clear I can switch on EBC. Your swap is very cool but I'm already pretty committed to my BP.



--- back to my topic--

On ETD's website it says that someone has made 600whp with their rods. Anyone know who that someone is?
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:54 PM   #44
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I just saw the videos so I'll retract the statement regarding if he did it or not. I'll stand by the statement that 400+ on a dyno doesn't mean **** for a street car. I've seen 100s of dynos of cars making big power the sucked as daily drivers on the street and I'll stand by that statement.

My '01 had a CAS so what's your point?

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Engine/Tuning Problem

I don't need to build an all out high HP Miata. Having one that's streetable, or remotely reliable as a daily driver is futile. That's why I chose the LS6 swap. Factory power from a car that makes 375 without a sweat for 100k miles was a better solution. If I want 450, I'll throw in a cam, tune and upgraded valve springs.

So how many 400+ whp 4 banger Miatas are out there? You can probably count them on two hands. Now tell me if ANY of them have 10k street miles at over 400 whp.

And if that's on pump gas, it's on 100% meth too. I'll guarantee he's not making 475 on good ol Texas 93-4.

Frank
Well, starting in 99 all miatas from the factory no longer used a CAS. If you added one, fine. But it's not factory on 99+. There's a block off plate that is pressed into the rear of the cylinder head that can easily be removed to use one. My point was you say Mike had tuning issues with a part that didn't come on his car, therefore, perhaps you are confusing him with someone else.

Your opinion on what is streetable is just that. An opinion. Not fact. Some people are smart and can build a nice setup that has manners. And tune engines to run well under a variety of conditions. Sure, we've all seen pile-of-**** builds. But they are what you make them. It's not impossible to build a 400whp that's streetable. But it does requires a vast amount of knowledge and skill to achieve a reliable vehicle.

EDIT: Just clicked that link. I will assume both of you are refering to the cam position sensor.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:59 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
Damn Frank way to crush my dream. Yes, I want to DD this car because I love driving it through the rain in rush hour traffic, parking it on the streets in DC etc. I'm hoping that it will survive happily at 19psi WG spring and then when someone needs a spanking or the roads are nice and clear I can switch on EBC. Your swap is very cool but I'm already pretty committed to my BP.



--- back to my topic--

On ETD's website it says that someone has made 600whp with their rods. Anyone know who that someone is?
Who knows. They're CAT rods. You could ask marc, but he doesn't know his product too well based on the questions I've asked him about his rods. I got better answers from other websites, so when I buy a set, I'll get them elsewhere. You can get them cheaper just about anywhere but ETD. Go to ETD's website and the CAT part number is in the title of the item. Odds are they're fine for that much power. But hardly anyone ever pushes parts like this from making big power.
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:59 PM   #46
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No need to have a 400whp turbo Miata. I had one at 280whp 10 years ago and realized the law of diminishing returns in making higher hp with any turbo 4 banger after I owned 3 DSMs (at between 300-350 whp mark), a RX-7 TII (at around 320), and a Suby Forester XT (at 415 whp).

Do you have a 400+whp Miata? I've heard you quote numbers, but have yet to see a dyno sheet. That and your posts indicate you're making wastegate pressure, 12 psi, at 4100 rpm. Is your 400+ on pump gas? Meth? So full boost is at what, 5K rpm?

So how many miles have you put on it? How long have you driven it on the street? How is it at sub 45 degrees (non-Houston weather)?

I'm sure you have quite a bit of experience at what, 21-22 years old. You love the one car you've dumped a lot of money in and modified, but you also won't admit that there are issues and problems with a high strung, high hp car on the street. And please don't tell me there are no issues. You've posted on m.net about tuning issues with the CAS. Sure it's minor, but 10 minor issues add up to a big pain in the ***.

I'm not gonna jump on you any more but the ratio of failed high hp street projects to well sorted out successful street projects is about 1000:1.

Frank
Dude, you're a ------. You have absolutely NO clue what you are talking about. So you found one problem that I had with my car...SO WHAT. Problems are GOING to happen when you go to a standalone.

You must not be smart enough to fix problems very well. That, or you must have a shop do everything for you if you expect to have any respectable amount of power with ZERO problems right off the bat.

Talk all you want about putting a LS6 in your car...you're still going to be slow.

Once again, you are a ------.

Sorry FaeFlora for trashing your thread. I didn't realize this douche would respond like that.

Last edited by mikef85; 11-25-2008 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:15 PM   #47
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someone break out the oil and bikinis, ders bout to be da bess chick wraslin eva.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:03 PM   #48
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On ETD's website it says that someone has made 600whp with their rods. Anyone know who that someone is?[/QUOTE]

I did a little bit of research on this and came up blank. I have Belfabs in my engine and they have the same claim (same rods?).

BELFAB RACING PRODUCTS

I think that's just a general statement for their H-beam rod design in a 4cyl application. I'm sure there more than a handfull of honda/mitsu guys who are putting down those numbers with Belfab rods.

"600+hp" toyota rods:
BELFAB RACING PRODUCTS
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:44 AM   #49
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Interesting Thread....

Has anyone mentioned FE-DOHC swap.. *cough... Cough*...
No? Oh... Ok...

Anyway, Personally, My build is calling for head work as well. Someone mentioned the "Law of Diminishing Returns" and I think you could pull that out here, but hear me out. We all know, of course, that the head is where all the magic happens, and sure the 99' or MSM head's flow very nicely as they are, but when you gain 20-40cfm worth of flow from a great port job, and add in the fact you'll be running even more boots than most run... well, I could see a bit of power being opened up for you there.

Keep in mind that all the guys who eat-breathe-live-****-and blow up Miata every day know more than me, as I do not, exactly, and most will of course chime in and tell you/me/the world that the Head already has large ports, almost too large in some cases, and material should be added in some areas.. that is all from those who I've asked correct, but again, that is the assumption of a good port job, vice Joe Bob the guy who has been hackin aluminum heads to death with a dremel in his garage for the last 2.3 years....

Anyway, I guess, I'd like to suggest looking at port work? Its another $1500 to add to the budget though, but it may mean you can run less overall boost/octane and make more power.

Not that anyone didn't know any of that, but it's just another thought to mull over.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:56 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by chance91 View Post
Interesting Thread....

Has anyone mentioned FE-DOHC swap.. *cough... Cough*...
No? Oh... Ok...

Anyway, Personally, My build is calling for head work as well. Someone mentioned the "Law of Diminishing Returns" and I think you could pull that out here, but hear me out. We all know, of course, that the head is where all the magic happens, and sure the 99' or MSM head's flow very nicely as they are, but when you gain 20-40cfm worth of flow from a great port job, and add in the fact you'll be running even more boots than most run... well, I could see a bit of power being opened up for you there.

Keep in mind that all the guys who eat-breathe-live-****-and blow up Miata every day know more than me, as I do not, exactly, and most will of course chime in and tell you/me/the world that the Head already has large ports, almost too large in some cases, and material should be added in some areas.. that is all from those who I've asked correct, but again, that is the assumption of a good port job, vice Joe Bob the guy who has been hackin aluminum heads to death with a dremel in his garage for the last 2.3 years....

Anyway, I guess, I'd like to suggest looking at port work? Its another $1500 to add to the budget though, but it may mean you can run less overall boost/octane and make more power.

Not that anyone didn't know any of that, but it's just another thought to mull over.
Look at the date on the post before yours newb lol, this thread is dead and cold by now.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:20 PM   #51
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Well since someone dug this up I may as well write that I'm already on my way. I bought a motor with supertech pistons, rods, billet pump gears and a head with a FM p&p, valves. Whenever I can take my motor to the shop, valve springs, ati dampener, will be installed as well. I can't really find any sort of consensus online about ring clearances so I suppose I'll just go with whatever supertech and the machinist agree on. Engine removal and installation will be a big project for me and I'm trying to recruit some experienced friends for the job.

I finally decided on an engine builder as well---

Ed York @ York automotive is doing the disassembly/assembly and marks machine in westminster will do the machine work. As I wrote in some other threads, Ed dynod my car before and was very helpful in pinpointing some problems that showed on the dyno. He's an experienced racer and mechanic as well, and also races spec miata among other classes. It's been a real pain to find an engine shop. Most of the ones I've spoken with are very surly, unhelpful, and very expensive. I'm a noob so the helpful knowledge sharing attitude is much appreciated. His prices are also good.

link to york automotive on google maps

Last edited by Faeflora; 08-03-2009 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:26 AM   #52
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Well I found my thread while doing a search for something else so I figure I may as well update it.

The motor is done. The block I bought was trashed and most everything was worthless. If anyone has questions about what was wrong with it they can PM me. No component failures were due to manufacturing, just abhorrent tuning.

That pile of fuckup set me back for a little while. Nyways Ed @ York did indeed build the motor as planned. He turned it around in about 2 weeks eliminating the time he was waiting for me to send him replacements for the junk parts.

Engine has:

belfab rods
FM weiscos
billet OPG
ARP bolts and studs
FM p&p VVT head w/ FM springs, upgraded valves
stock block and head deck height


I'm picking it up next week and will start the install then.

Gonna do a bunch of things while the motor is out

- swap the act organic disc for an ACT 6 puck
- may be swapping the 6 speed for a mazdaspeed since it's supposedly stronger and 6th gear is a little longer (if the deal goes through)
- swapping the torson for a diff w/ a rx7 clutch type and cryo/rem treated 3.6 r&p (if paul ever responds and lets us know if the 626 r&p actually does work aok)
- mazdaspeed diff mounts
- hydramist install
- windshield washer bottle since the stock once couldn't fit anywhere after my install :(
- turbosmart MBC (gonna figger out how to run it in parallel or serial with EBC.. might end up using it on the wastegate signal if I can comprehend how that could help spool and it actually helps)
- real roll bar
- new hydra wideband sensor
- gotta fix a stupid PPT frame mounting hole that stripped ugh
- frame rails since mine are starting to look horrible
- new vacuum lines and hoses and maybe a little wire cleanup everywhere and engine bay cleanup
- begi coolant reroute redo

That will be a lot of work and I've never pulled an engine before so this should be interesting.

After the install I was planning on getting it properly tuned by Phil @ Element tuning in gaithersburg md. He's the guy who actually designed the hydramist so I figure he can do it.

Lastly, I finally have a digital camera that doesn't suck so I'll start a real genuine build thread soon yay
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:50 AM   #53
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You'll be very happy with Phil tuning your car. Since it's been awhile since this thread was started, what's your current goal for the car?
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:46 AM   #54
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Im wondering why brake upgrades are not on that list. I would think you would need some bigger rotors with some wilwoods for the added stopping power. We do need some pics so post them please!
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:52 AM   #55
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Still running the S5 mani?

Seems like a nice build, good luck with it! You should also go to the dyno day in DE in a few weeks to show off the car.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:33 PM   #56
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Jay I guess you have experience with Phil? Did he help you with any tuning before?

As for my power goals, my plans are-

"Stage 1" - see how much power I can get on the stock coils. Jay set an inspiring benchmark and I'm curious how close I can come to his numbers even though my manifolds don't flow as well. I do have a better flowing head (as compared his to when he dyno'd) so maybe that will balance things out a bit. I'll run pure water, no meth to KISS. So the stage 1 goal is around 400hp.

"Stage 2" - I was thinking about going to the MSD coils while everything is out but I think it would be best if I first tune on stock coils and get the engine running ok and tuned broken in first. So Stage 2 will be the MSDs, injectors if necessary and/OR running up to 50/50 water/meth to get some more power, and maybe an intake manifold if a good one comes to market. Tim- got any 1.8 designs ? Stage 2 goals will be to get as much power out of the GT3071 as possible.

"Stage 3"- ????? profit?

I do plan to be there at the DE dyno day. If the car isn't ready I'll bring up my dad's 1983 turbo diesel station wagon and we can dyno that :>
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:15 PM   #57
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Jay I guess you have experience with Phil? Did he help you with any tuning before?
He was out here in the Seattle area to tune a bunch of Subaru's. The dyno he rented is at Pina Motorsports where I spend a lot of time. Had a chance to talk with him very briefly, but the results from the cars spoke for themselves. As for him tuning my car, it hasn't happened and probably won't because Andre at Pina Motorsports still takes care of all the tuning.

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Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
As for my power goals, my plans are-

"Stage 1" - see how much power I can get on the stock coils.
I'd be curious to see how much power you can get out of the stock coils. I'm pretty sure that I can get over 500 out of my stock setup without issues, the 01+ cars aren't as bad as people make them out to be.
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:41 PM   #58
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Im wondering why brake upgrades are not on that list. I would think you would need some bigger rotors with some wilwoods for the added stopping power. We do need some pics so post them please!
It's a street build. The stockers are fine since he's not overheating them. On most public roads the tires are going to lose traction before the brakes can't lock the rotors. Not sure if he has ABS or not.

Not sure why you wouldn't want to run 50/50 meth. Getting a bottle of distilled for 95 cents and dumping half the water out and filling it with meth or denatured alcohol is about as simple as it gets. I'm sure Phil will recommend the same. I'm not sure what Miata guys fascination is with NOT running the extra octane afforded by going 50/50.

Frank
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Old 10-24-2009, 01:51 PM   #59
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Yes, I don't plan to be doing tracking so the stock brakes will work aok. I do have ABS. I was considering upgrading the radiator but I think I'll stay stock for the same reason unless an unignorable used deal comes up.

Regarding meth, my main concern is my BOV. I have a Tial so it's VTA and FM's installation instructions said 50/50 will still burn. I've read other contradictions on the net but I'm also wondering about whether my engine might be affected by methanol mist. If this is something I don't need to worry about please explain.

I would mostly like to run washer fluid since it's convenient and premixed but I need to research whether or not peoples fears of "gumminess" are warranted.
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:16 PM   #60
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- may be swapping the 6 speed for a mazdaspeed since it's supposedly stronger and 6th gear is a little longer (if the deal goes through)
The gear ratios are the same. Don't swap based on that.

I am excited to see what you think about your 1.9L 3071 combo. I'm planning on the same combo, but with my S4 manifold.
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