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Old 01-07-2013, 10:59 PM   #1
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Default Band-aid setup for a year

Looking for insight;

On my 1.6 Miata, I have a JRSC with AFPR and MSD timing box.

I would like to run a crank overlay pulley this year. I think the 'best' approach would be to add an MS, bigger injectors, and some sort of cooling as in FMIC and/or w/m. All of that might allow me to run a smaller nose pulley too.

Unfortunately there's other expensive stuff (house, wedding) going on right now, so I don't have the $ for that. I wish I did.

I'm hoping I can get away with the pulley overlay and 1.8 injectors. So the grand total is:

- JRSC
- AFPR
- 1.8 injectors
- MSD timing box
- (TDR tensioner and intake)

Is there enough fuel to keep up with 8psi of boost by using the AFPR and 1.8 injectors? I understand that 1.8 injectors alone add fuel versus the 1.6 injectors, but should the AFPR be added as well to keep up with the boost?
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:06 AM   #2
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I've been there and done it all with a 1.6 m45. Trust me when I tell you that waiting and saving for a MegaSquirt is the best thing you could ever do for your car.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:21 AM   #3
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Thanks sir.

I know a MegaSquirt is where I am headed. I was shooting for a progressive build where I keep adding parts that can be used with a MS. The MSD box is the only thing that doesn't follow that goal, but it was fairly inexpensive.

I'll start doing some research and try to figure out which MS is best for my purposes and when I should get it. I also need an AFR.

It could be a 'this year' addition, but I need to see how the spring progresses first. My daily driver needs some upkeep, so it is priority one for significant spending.

If I can't do MS yet, I'm hoping I can add the injectors and overlay pulley for now.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:34 AM   #4
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To be brutally honest, you will not notice a power difference with all the mods you listed. I did the same (with a DDM intake and metal crossover tube) and at most it was 10hp gain at best with the 2psi increase (in the winter, more like 1-1.5 in the summer). Your MPG will suffer as well and overall efficiency will suffer due to the added heat from the small blower.

I'm not trying to dull your spirits, because I know it's hard to resist the mod bug when it bites. But I'm telling you with all honesty that the only mod worth the money is a MegaSquirt. You will make more power at 5/6psi with the MS than you will at 7/8psi with the bandaids and improve overall efficiency. The AFPR and MSD box will become useless when you switch to MS and the resale is laughable at best (trust me, I had to practically give my old stuff away).

If I was in your shoes, my list would be:
-MS (used ones come up for sale often)
-RX8 yellow injectors

Modern fuel/timing management and modern fuel injectors will make your car feel like it's from 2013.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
Modern fuel/timing management and modern fuel injectors will make your car feel like it's from 2013.
I have a Reverend MS2 for a 1.6 I could sell you if interested.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
To be brutally honest, you will not notice a power difference with all the mods you listed. I did the same (with a DDM intake and metal crossover tube) and at most it was 10hp gain at best with the 2psi increase (in the winter, more like 1-1.5 in the summer). Your MPG will suffer as well and overall efficiency will suffer due to the added heat from the small blower.

I'm not trying to dull your spirits, because I know it's hard to resist the mod bug when it bites. But I'm telling you with all honesty that the only mod worth the money is a MegaSquirt. You will make more power at 5/6psi with the MS than you will at 7/8psi with the bandaids and improve overall efficiency. The AFPR and MSD box will become useless when you switch to MS and the resale is laughable at best (trust me, I had to practically give my old stuff away).

If I was in your shoes, my list would be:
-MS (used ones come up for sale often)
-RX8 yellow injectors

Modern fuel/timing management and modern fuel injectors will make your car feel like it's from 2013.
I will just have to get over the fact that I need proper tuning. I have flashed maps onto cars in the past, but obviously an off-the-shelf map is going to have significant effort put into it, not just fuel.

Thanks for steering me in the right direction.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:50 AM   #7
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Excellent reply.

honestly, well done, I didnt expect that.

Enjoy your economy, drivability and power.

Dann
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:27 PM   #8
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I bet you would make more power with a properly tuned MS on your current setup than with a smaller blower pulley and band AIDS.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:22 PM   #9
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Sorry to jump in and cram it down your throat, but, YES. Go megasquirt, you will make shitty power and risk blowing your motor if you keep stacking on the band-aids. Take it from someone who was there (with a stock greddy kit, bipes acu, 1.8l inj, etc.) It was a terrible setup, shitty drivability, lame power.

I went MSPNP and my life changed. Immediately my dick grew 3 inches, and kept growing over the next several months as well. I started getting bitches, tons of them. I'm not talking the normal 3's and 4's like you are used to my friend. I'm talking about dimes, all the ******* time. Not only that, but at them gym other bro's wanted to be me, as well as be inside of me. I was like tom *******-selleck from 3 men and a baby.

seriously though, ms is rad. You could find a ms1 for nothing, don't waste your money on band-aids.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:44 PM   #10
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Oooh I got this. It's become my pastime.

MS2 for $250

Brain-built MS1 for $250

MS1 with no price listed (seems to still be for sale)

Seems to me that $250 is well within band-aid price.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:34 PM   #11
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I am working on researching the MS options and figuring out which one is best. I need to determine how much functionality I would want etc. I would be leaning towards MS2, I think.

I have done reading/research in the past but don't remember much. My memory sucks.

I do like what I am reading, but the tuning seems intimidating. Will just have to jump in and take a crack at it. The dyno tuning part looks like some $ to be invested as well.

Whether I will buy one this year is TBD, but at least I can prepare myself. I decided to buy the 1.8 injectors and overlay pulley, which are things the MS can make use of. I am hoping to find my way into a MS sooner than later and get it installed and functioning before the snow melts.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:41 PM   #12
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Tuning the MS is pretty damn easy actually once you get it installed correctly and have a decent basemap. With logging and TunerStudio it will pretty much tune itself and then you just go in and make small adjustments. I tuned mine on the street and when I took it to the dyno I didn't make any more power than I came in with, just a bit smoother powerband and another set of ears on detcans to help my sanity. I'm sure it will be harder with a turbo but N/A tuning is easy.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:53 PM   #13
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What's the power goal?

MS is super easy to tune. If you get the paid version of TunerStudio, you have access to autotune. This is not a replacement for dyno tuning but if your not tracking it or beating it up you should be fine for awhile. Like any toy the longer you have it the more you learn about it. Then after you have gotten over the house and wedding(shame) you can get it tuned on a dyno.

It's hard to read forums about MS and really get your head around it. People use Mega speak and if you don't know what's goin on it can seem very confusing. Go to the DIYautotune website and start from the begining. Download the free version of tunerstudio and play with it, the software.

The only bandaids you need are for the cracks in your face from all the smiles MS will bring.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:04 PM   #14
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I have the Miata as a summer 'DD' and autox car. I like power, but I wasn't looking to go beyond what the stock motor can handle.

For now, my goal was to go *almost* as far as the M45 can, which is probably 160-170whp. But I am trying to avoid a lot of hard parts that can't go to turbo, because I have turbocharging in the back of my mind. I like the S/C, but I like turbo's too and have a theory that a turbo would get much better MPG on my 30-mile commute to work...

So I was looking at MegaSquirt, water/meth, injectors, and crank overlay/nose pullies. And also intercooling if I could keep the pressure drop down and be able to use it for turbo.

Then there's also clutch, possibly rear end, etc.

Regardless, getting a MegaSquirt and learning how to use it would be great for what I want to do with the car. I will try to avoid the urge to throw band-aids at it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:07 PM   #15
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Having a properly functioning bypass valve in the blower setup will make a significant mileage improvement. The bypass should be open whenever the car isnt in boost.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:09 PM   #16
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Yep - that guy works.

I know he's old, though, so I want to replace him before too long.
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