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Old 09-30-2015, 10:39 PM   #1
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Default Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp

So I am getting th car running after 3 years.
I searched but was unsure what setting best suit the new 610cc flow force injectors from trackspeed engineering.
My current injectors are old style 460cc from a rx7.

Last edited by 90 Turbo; 10-01-2015 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:47 AM   #2
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Adjust your Required Fuel and dead time.
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Old 10-01-2015, 04:55 PM   #3
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Current setting are
Required fuel 6.2
And dead time is 1.2 @ 13.2v
Correction is .100
Pwm current limit 100
Pwm time threshold 25.6ms
Inj Pwm periods 66

Is there a math fomula I should be referencing?
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Old 10-01-2015, 05:12 PM   #4
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:34 PM   #5
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Ok I have made all the changes in directions to dead time .63 and bat correction .116.
I also changed required fuel to 5.6 but it still will not stay running. I talked to trackspeed they suggested a retune and to start with multiplying the whole VE table by *1.25 or 125%.
No real improvement at all.

What other setting should I change to adjust for the new injectors. I have been searching and ID 725 and ID 1000 both us a good bit more dead time. Like .9 something.

I have tried richening the VE table more and Lowering/leaning too.

The AFR seem to be going lean as it dies so do I just need to crank the fuel way up. I tried 150% more with little change.

I think rather than changing the whole ve Table up 125% couldn't that be done in req fuel?
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:45 PM   #6
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If I want idle VE values around 55 I use a req fuel of 10.00. If I want a proper req fuel value I use 4.4something, then everyone freaks out because my VE values are ~120 at idle. It doesn't make a bit of difference, really.

The math formula is 1/2 req fuel, double VE values. Half VE values, double reqfuel...

There's a little more to it than that. With req fuel 10.00 I have start cranking percentages in the 40-50% range, as those percentages are driven off the req fuel value for me. This varies from MS to MS...

I don't know why people say you can change the req fuel when you swap to different injectors and have the VE table be close. The three times I've changed injectors that could not have been further from the truth. Retune it all is the only way.
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:34 PM   #7
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Well if I don't change req fuel and up the ve map by 160% she idles at least.
I might have a vacuum leak at the injectors. I will check and post back.
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
If I want idle VE values around 55 I use a req fuel of 10.00. If I want a proper req fuel value I use 4.4something, then everyone freaks out because my VE values are ~120 at idle. It doesn't make a bit of difference, really.

The math formula is 1/2 req fuel, double VE values. Half VE values, double reqfuel...

There's a little more to it than that. With req fuel 10.00 I have start cranking percentages in the 40-50% range, as those percentages are driven off the req fuel value for me. This varies from MS to MS...

I don't know why people say you can change the req fuel when you swap to different injectors and have the VE table be close. The three times I've changed injectors that could not have been further from the truth. Retune it all is the only way.
For me, I moved from the stock MSM injectors to the RX8, and I did the REQ_Fuel and dead times, and it really did get me pretty close. But it also might be the fact that I moved to a roughly 35% bigger injector.

I could imagine that the REQ_FUEL works at a multiplier of some sort.
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:12 PM   #9
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Every time I upgraded, I jumped an injector "generation." stock 1.6 to rx8 to these gt500s. MSM and rx8 injectors are both denso units, so I guess they behave near identical except being smaller. I guess the reqfuel shift would be handy there.

The adjustments I had to do from rx8 to gt500 didn't seem very linear across the table though, and all reqfuel is good for is linear adjustments.

So I'd pick a reqfuel and start tuning again, unfortunately.
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:12 PM   #10
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Well carb cleaner around all injectors makes no change in idle. So i guess no vacuum leaks.
had to change the ve tables so much to idle my upper end cells are maxed at 255.
I tried making the changes only to req fuel but that didn't seem to have the same effect ever tho I think it's supposed to.

I also noticed a new noise almost like a spark plug wire jumping the gap with the new injectors. Maybe the new injectors are just loader. The 460cc didn't sound like this is that normal?
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:15 PM   #11
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rx7's are super old injectors that don't close near as fast as these new ones, they do clack a bit more than stock.

There's no way you need 255 anywhere with these injectors and a reqfuel anywhere north of 4.0. I don't know math but from experience that's a boatload of fuel.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:16 PM   #12
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I will have to put the old injectors back in.
Anyone have a ve table for ev14 injectors.
I listened to them all and the are all firing.
It about shakes the car to death.
I just don't get how an injector change effects it like this if I have the afr in the 13-14 range.
Any help would be great.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:20 PM   #13
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You should actually tune your car.
If you can't, that's fine, take it to someone that can.
I say this in all seriousness.

New tech injectors will require a complete re-tune of the VE map, and dialing in of the req_fuel, dead times, and battery voltage offset to work properly, just to name a few.

You don't just flip 1 number, multiply another set of numbers, and drive away without tuning.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:47 PM   #14
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Yeah I want to get it running at least so I can drive it to the tuner. I am in Dallas I don't know of anyone around here that tunes Megasquirt. Hustler used to but I haven't PM'd him.

Any way I am just trying to Idle my car. Please help me tune it. What do you mean. I mean I tuned the 460c ok but I had a base map.

I need a place to start please.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:49 PM   #15
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I have changed a lot of these things in trying to get it running:
VE map, and dialing in of the req_fuel, dead times, and battery voltage offset to work properly

the instructions list dead time and bat correction V
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:11 AM   #16
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18psi I am reading your post from 9/2013 now. seems like you had similar problems.
do you have a copy of your VE table?


https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...5%2A%2A-74991/
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:47 AM   #17
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I will try to dig up the old tune from that car. But it was just a combination of fuel/spark/prime and crank pw's all coming together that got that car to start consistently. Lots of reading, trial and error, and figuring out exactly what that car wanted. There is no set values

(all of this, of course, assuming you don't have a hardware problem/issue)
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:31 AM   #18
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if you were idleing around 30-40% VE before, youll want to add about 30 points across the map to bring idle up to 60-70%VE.
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:32 AM   #19
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thanks 18 psi I could use any map to start from. That would be veryhelpful.

My personal email is
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If it's easier to email.
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:23 PM   #20
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Any luck with the VE14 injector maps? Please

See my video

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