BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet) - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-11-2016, 11:39 PM   #21
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Not all that easily. Anything north of 250hp and you need to open it up to build it. Not to mention that its got a terrible heat problem, vibrates like a ******* bastard, and like to break anything you bolt to it. And the stock EFI system works about as well as a bull trying to do ballet. Really its one of the worst engines you could choose to swap into something. The only reason we dick around with it in miatas is that its the only thing that fits easy and its good enough, but it really is just a heavy hateful lump of iron.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:46 PM   #22
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Not all that easily. Anything north of 250hp and you need to open it up to build it. Not to mention that its got a terrible heat problem, vibrates like a ******* bastard, and like to break anything you bolt to it. And the stock EFI system works about as well as a bull trying to do ballet. Really its one of the worst engines you could choose to swap into something. The only reason we dick around with it in miatas is that its the only thing that fits easy and its good enough, but it really is just a heavy hateful lump of iron.
Yea I figured I'd have to open it up down the line. I hope I can get a better than stock radiator, I should have room for a decent one. All racecars vibrate right?
Haha, the stock Starlet engine was a useless bulletproof lump of iron, performance parts are noneexistant for that engine.

But really if this engine does give me a lot of problems I can still take it out and sell it for a nice profit (as long as I don't blow it up)
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:50 PM   #23
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No, there's "hey its a racecar vibrations" and there's, "I need to stop every 10 miles down the road and re-tighten every bolt because this motor belongs in a tractor". With anything resembling solid mounts. And of course you have to make your turbo manifold out of sch9000 unobtanium to make it not crack.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:59 PM   #24
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No, there's "hey its a racecar vibrations" and there's, "I need to stop every 10 miles down the road and re-tighten every bolt because this motor belongs in a tractor". With anything resembling solid mounts. And of course you have to make your turbo manifold out of sch9000 unobtanium to make it not crack.
Might as well swap in a Cummins then right? Haha
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:17 PM   #25
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Okay, got some good progress today. Got one motor mount ready to weld, header in (kinda) and I have the trans mount figured out.



So I grabbed the Miata drive shaft and lo and behold it's almost perfect length. Crazy!




Anyway, that's all for today.
Attached Thumbnails
BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-f63b2087-58bb-43e5-a338-c5e989c12277_zpsgwnhcsbd.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-f4c6041d-c492-4790-915d-13d4e8611612_zpstrnwhdfy.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-ead3ceff-e1e5-4fb5-945b-e1da0b72c567_zpsixcfzu2d.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-688f1da1-890e-471f-969e-a968740c6f36_zpsvgrbl3a6.jpg  
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Old 01-16-2016, 02:37 AM   #26
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BP is a good engine in the sense that:
-it is already inside the miata when you buy one. This is basically the main reason that the BP is modded by everyone here.
-it safely can make more than double stock whp just by swapping parts off the outside of the engine, which is convenient if your engine bay already has one and you're lazy
-the crank is nearly indestructible (the mains, rods, oil pump gears, etc, ie, everything attached to it, not so much)
-there is a pretty huge aftermarket and no matter how weird a modding path you choose, there are probably a dozen posts somewhere on the internet from people who already did it before you

But it's a bad motor from the standpoint of:
-the head doesn't flow worth ****
-the engine is undersquare and has a shitty rod ratio
-the bottom end is a solid block of ******* iron and it weighs more than a modern V6 despite making a fraction of the power (see head flow, above)
-the engine vibrates and breaks everything you bolt on to it
-including oil pumps

If you're doing a swap, you might as well do something that doesn't suck- ie, pick one of the engines that miata guys swap in to replace the BP.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:07 AM   #27
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I think those pros weigh out the cons in my situation.

I got the engine for an incredible price and selling it and buying another would put me in the hole. The other engines I was thinking about is the 4age and the beams altezza 3sge. I decided against the 4age because it's carbed, aftermarket parts are expensive. Maintenance parts are tricky to find. And it takes a lot to make significant power with it.

I decided against the 3s mostly because parts would be incredibly hard to find for it, it being a jdm engine and all.

The Miata engine works for me because cheap parts, easy to find parts, it already has efi, vvti, supercharged and turbo is very common on these engines so lots of documentation, so I think I'll just deal with the rattling and poor flowing head.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:51 AM   #28
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I think he's a little beyond picking a different engine at this point. The aftermarket is one of the best I've seen.
I think it's at pretty awesome swap, but I'm into oddities.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:38 PM   #29
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I put all the wiring on and hooked up the older 96 miata fuel pump I got and tried to fire the engine in the car. It sputtered and tried but not enough pressure. Older Miata was only rated for like 38psi(?) and I need 58psi.

Anyone know of any cars that had an inline fuel pump that makes 50+psi? I know the 88 f150 does, but I wonder if there are any others.

Also, does anyone have any experience with the E2000 Airtex inline pump?
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:45 PM   #30
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just change your fuel pressure regulator
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:47 PM   #31
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just change your fuel pressure regulator
There is no regulator, I just had it plumbed right to it.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:54 PM   #32
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Oh, lol then your pressure is too high.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:58 PM   #33
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Oh, lol then your pressure is too high.
Really? I have the stock regulator I just didn't think the old pump could make enough pressure. Will too much pressure cause the sputtering?
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:04 PM   #34
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Yeah flooding. You have an NB motor, the fuel regulator for those is in the gas tank. Its just pulse dampers on the fuel rail.
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:09 PM   #35
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Yeah flooding. You have an NB motor, the fuel regulator for those is in the gas tank. Its just pulse dampers on the fuel rail.
Apparantly what I think is the regulator isn't the regulator then. This is what I have , the thing on the left.



EDIT*, yea I have the damper, shame because they crushed the miata I got this engine from. I'll have to get an adjustable regulator. So you say the 96 fuel pump can make enough pressure, it just get regulated down for the 1.6 engine?
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BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-80-nb_miata_fuel_lines_32d4ecf95307f2df9d15356d65bab4e78ee2a653.jpg  

Last edited by ajay842; 01-21-2016 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 05:56 PM   #36
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I don't know why you're saying that the 4A-GE isn't fuel injected. My '86 MR2 has an injected version of the engine, and some version of the engine was made through the '90s, with up to 160 hp. True, they're a little bit fragile when you try to get more power out of them, but they're relatively cheap and should bolt up to an AE-86 transmission. You can even put a 4A head on a 7A bottom end to get a 1.8L engine with a good-flowing head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_A_engine#4A

You could also go with a 2ZZ-GE engine from a Celica, Matrix, or Vibe, which makes about 180 hp. Although I don't know how easy it would be to adapt to a rear-drive transmission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_ZZ_engine#2ZZ-GE

Of course, it looks like you're already commited to the Mazda BP at this point.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:47 PM   #37
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Most 4age's I see in the Starlets have to be converted to EFI, or have been converted. Getting a T50 trans is tricky. I might as well buy a whole ae86.

A 2zzge would be sweet, but a trans would be the very hard, would also need custom headers.

Really for what I purchased the BP for and the aftermarket for it, it's worth the extra effort of installing it.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:39 PM   #38
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I got the mount welded up at school today.


Attached Thumbnails
BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-fdee13ee-3a19-4679-8e3b-fe6bd209d8da_zpstotkuerc.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-75e05845-a1f5-4ae9-a61c-1c532c9e60e6_zpsv2lqttjr.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-e31f3e26-3d65-4e62-8639-cd31a4d910eb_zpsffwros5h.jpg  
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:24 PM   #39
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Anyway, ill let the pics talk.


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BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-57bc2e6b-6a10-4047-98d0-73a5d3ad8ed7_zpsybnakoqb.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-7b82f4b7-d5d4-4114-a5b9-4c5520f9d79c_zpsy6ga59sd.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-e8da8c90-65ef-43de-a6e3-22fc87d236c0_zpsmhosemcv.jpg  
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:46 PM   #40
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I got some more parts in today.




I was able to set up a nice little bench test to make sure it was all going to work.



I ran a line to the engine and started it. It took a bit of cranking but eventually it started and ran for about 10 seconds around 1800rpm. So atleast everything seems good with that.


I need to figure out if I can run this pump returnless or not. Right now when I hook it up, it build pressure, makes a strong humming sound, then changes tone. Not sure if this pump has an internal relief valve or something?
Attached Thumbnails
BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-2bcc12d6-3779-45c7-8d52-398958ecdfac_zpsi3fsrhbl.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-65ae912b-2061-4741-80c5-a721cf836e66_zpskchqroud.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-219b1b4f-c362-4f78-9851-c244449581f9_zpsiyrcssdo.jpg   BP-Z3 in a KP61 (1981 Toyota Starlet)-c887fa72-9f2b-4396-898d-c445b283c040_zpsp91imcpy.jpg  
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