kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

my overflow tank is slowly filling UP by itself when i'm driving for more than 5 km
i have no over heating issues,hardly goes higher than 200F,and no leaks/smokes.

when i stop after a ride, my overflow tank is bubbeling and slowly going up, when the car sits down for a couple of hours, it goes down.

just replaced my head gasket by a cometic and torqued everything to specs using mazda sequence etc etc.

setup is, stock B6 1990, artech+gt25,msPNP,begi coolant reroute,oem rad/fan.


could a worn out rad cap cause these kinda problem?

fooger03

iTrader: (2)

http://www.plumbset.co.uk/waterexpansion.asp

ianferrell

definitely get a radiator cap... they're cheap and cause that exact thing to happen.

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

changed the rad cap and it seems to have setteled the problem.
i probably didin't purged the radiator long enough.

thanks for the info, espetially fooger for the website

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

ok, i got the same problem, after an extended period of driving, the coolant overflow is still getting up a bit and going down after cooling down, BUT it's not overflowing everywhere.as soon as it cooled down it fall exactly where it was, on the ''full'' mark

if i let it run on iddle, it stalls at 180F on my prosport gauge and the cluster gauge is rock steady on the middle-right of the gauge,where it allways were.

if i decide to abuse the car, temp on the cluster gauge is fluctuating between the middle of the gauge and the 3/4 (on the hot side), prosport gauge is going towards 200F-210F and i just cant feel fine about the cluster gauge going up.


so , if i decide to ignore the prosport gauge, i have to say that my car is probably overheating. if i ignore the cluster gauge, and if i base my experience with my previous drag BP, 200-210F is ''normal hot''


coolant setup is a Begi reroute+escalade upper hose,FM lower rad hose, oem rad+fan/shroud, i dont have the ''plastic skidplate'' under the car anymore, never re-installed it. after the swap.i have a pretty hard time beleiving that the head gasket is done for, i removed all my plugs and they were all perfect,no visible difference between all 4 of them,i'm not smoking or leaking, and the overflow allways stays where it was when it was cold.

is the car is only running ''normal hot'' and the cluster gauge is freaking out, OR do i really have some cooling issues, like a partially clogged rad or something else like that.


thanks for your time, i'm more worrying that anything else.

olderguy

iTrader: (19)

Check the rotation of the fans, assuming that they turn on at the correct temp.

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

fans are pusing air towards the engine, not toward the IC
i setted the fans on at 175F in MS

phillyb

iTrader: (8)

well, after driving the coolant level rises in the overflow and then goes back down to the regular position after cooling down.

if the prosport gauge is reading the temp properly, then perhaps the water temp gauge in the cluster is faulty.

in fact, i'd almost trust the prosport gauge more than the cluster gauge.
i'm not sure how you'd troubleshoot the cluster gauge, but trying a new sender for the prosport gauge would rule that out.

if the water is still boiling in the overflow tank, that's not right, and perhaps the prosport gauge ISN'T reading properly.

i've been plagued with cooling issues with my last two cars (nb miata included) - head gaskets, radiator, took it elsewhere to have the cluster gauge checked, thermostat, rad hoses...etc.

good luck

fooger03

iTrader: (2)

Water normally boils at 212* F at sea level. When you increase the pressure of water, the boiling temperature increases. With a stock Miata radiator cap, the boiling temperature is somewhere in the neighborhood of 265* F.

When water temperature increases, the volume of that water must also increase. The radiator cap releases some volume of water as that pressure increases. As soon as that water is released, it is no longer subject to the higher pressure boiling point of 265, but instead is in atmospheric pressure and will boil at approximately 212. If the water in your radiator increases above ambient boiling temperature, then any discharge of water through the radiator cap will result in instant boiling in the overflow hose which will generate air bubbles in the overflow tank.

Where is your aftermarket gauge pulling its signal from?

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

the sender is tapped in teh Begi coolant reroute spacer.within 1'' of cluster sender.

water is not boiling, as when i was experiencing bubbeling, i putted my finger on the overflow stick and felt a really small air presure, but no water spray/steam.

since i changed the rad cap, no more bubbeling issues, but the cluster gauge is freaking out when the prosport indicate 175-180, and it says i'm overheating before my prosport reach 200F.

rad hoses have presure in them when hot,

fooger03

iTrader: (2)

I suspect that the water level in the head is dropping below the stock temperature sensor - there's an air pocket in there. This would definitely cause your stock gauge to go wacky - when it happens, it probably says the engine gets hotter if you do a long slow brake, and then cooler if you do an acceleration. That air pocket is either caused by the cooling system not being burped properly (harder to do with a rear reroute - ESPECIALLY if the reroute goes *down* below the level of the water outlet in the head before getting to the radiator) or else something else is causing air to get into the coolant passages in the head....

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

is there any ''proper'' way to burp a radiator other than letting the thermostat open on idle with the rad cap open and filling it up as it bubbles.


the reroute is indeed facing downward at it's waterneck, wich was ''kinda'' leveled out using a soft hose(escalade as founded on this forum)

the car is behaving exactly as you mentioned, it's getting ''wharmer/hot''as i brakes/stops, and goes down, a lot(20F+) as soon as i get back to 40-60 mph

if the system get presurised,that the ''up and down'' of my overflow is normal, and that my cluster gauge is acting all weird,possibly reading wrong,what could cause air in the coolant system? cracked head?

ianferrell

Proper way to burp is to use a Lisle Spill Free Funnel (Magic Funnel is what mechanics call them) They're about $30 shipped, 'tool trucks' carry them, but autozone doesn't. Only way to go. Lets you get all the air out w/ the thermostat open.

olderguy

iTrader: (19)

Just some burping tips: Definitely use the above funnel so that the system can get hot enough to open the thermostat while burping.

When burping a non-reroute system, raise the nose of the vehicle. When burping a re-routed system, keep the engine level and "massage" the reroute and upper radiator hose to force out air pockets.

Aside: Unless you have fortified the electrical system, having both fans tied together will actually make them both run slower than you want.

fooger03

iTrader: (2)

I'm not entirely sure how the begi reroute works. The M-tuned reroute that I have includes a plate that goes on the end of the front water neck. That plate has two threaded plugs in it in case you want to add more coolant lines/sensors to it. To burp my system, I simply remove the upper threaded plug, raise the front end of the car, then fill the radiator. When coolant starts coming out of that hole, I replace the plug, then continue filling the radiator the rest of the way.

Photo of the threaded plugs in the M-tuned reroute - if the begi reroute has something similar, I would recommend using them to burp your system.



If you're going to use the long funnel method, it works by completely depressurizing the coolant system which allows the air to expand significantly more than it would in your pressurized system. You'll get a lot more air out of it this way by letting the system get hot while still being open than you ever would with a pressurized system.

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

i used this one

http://www.bellengineering.net/produ...roducts_id=401

with a kia waterneck,escalade hose, and that's it. mu clt and prosport sender are tapped on this sandwich plate.

with my setup, the hose is further on the PS,, and is going a bit downward at it's exit on the rear of the head.
as seen here



i'll go check for a funnel at the store later this afternoon.

if it dosen't settle my problem, what could cause air in the system?

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

founded a multi -adaptor funnel, ordered it, i'll give news back this weekend.

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

just used a funnel for the first time, a lot of bubbles in the system, i have to say that i never had this kind of problems with my previous b-series.must be the reroute/hose setup.

filled up everything, overflow is between min and max lines, and goes up about half an inch-to-top when super hot.

i went to beat the **** out of it, without any problems, cluster gauge went almost to the top, but the prosport was steady to 200F , even while leaving it iddeling for 5 minutes after running it hard.

cluster gauge is probably reading wrong.

thanks for the info everyone, one problem solved at the time

fooger03

iTrader: (2)

Simply "using a funnel to fill the radiator" and filling everything up is not going to solve anything.

did you let the car idle up to operating temperature with the radiator cap removed yet?

I don't know how else I can say this, chances are that your stock gauge is 100% accurate in measuring temps at its location. Your air bubble in the head is going to cause a warped head while your coolant temperature remains normal.

If you're okay with that, then I'm okay with that too - but I still believe that the problem isn't solved.

Open your hood, look at your engine, and I NEED YOU TO THINK CRITICALLY on this. How in the world do you get an air pocket out of your cylinder head?
o Do you still have a front water neck? Is the water neck capped off because of the reroute? Remove radiator cap, raise the front of the car, loosen the bolts on the water neck cap until you can break the seal at the top, and wait for water to start coming out.
o How easy is it for you to get to the OEM gauge sender? That sender is located in the uppermost portions of the head so that IF THERE'S AN AIR POCKET, IT ALERTS THE DRIVER TO STOP DRIVING THE CAR. Can you get to that sender with some extensions? If so, then raise the back of the car 5 or 6 inches, remove the radiator cap, reach in there with your ratchet extensions, and start removing the sensor. Remove it until there are only a couple threads left in the block. The air in the block will get past the remaining few threads. Once water starts oozing out of the threads, replace your sensor and reconnect it.
o Are both of these options impossible? If so, then raise the rear of the car. Remove the radiator cap, release the hose clamp that holds the upper radiator hose to the water neck at the back of the block, slowly slide the radiator hose off the neck until you get to the last little bit. Push the hose "down" so that you open a tiny crack at the top of the radiator hose/water neck union, and wait for all of the air to come out. Once it's all water coming out, replace the hose and clamp. This will not get "all" of the air out, because your water neck points slightly down, but it will get most out.
o Want an easier, but less effective method? Remove radiator cap, insert spill-free funnel, start car, let car idle until the radiator fans come on for about 5 minutes. This will remove *most* of the air if your radiator hose travels mostly flat - but if the hose travels down more than an inch or two, it will not get much air out at all.
o Don't want to do any of this? Buy a spare cylinder head.

kaboshe

iTrader: (15)

i removed the plug on the front waterneck,jacked the car up front, and used a funnel, cant do better than that since the stock coolant sensor is just plain innaccessible oriented that way in the reroute/head.

after the last effort to purge the coolant from the rad i noticed that after the run overflow spilled coolant everywhere,YET AGAIN even with the overflow level on LOW. at cold, so it went up at least 4 inches wich is just way too much.it's only hapening when i drive the car hard, as i allready done a 2h ride without anything happening. but a 10min hard drive make everything acting weird.

i lost the count that i cheked the rad/overflow,waterpump,rad cap, thermostat, etc etc etc.

i went to a garage to perform a leakdown test, head is cracked,probably from both head gasket failure. it was perfectly flat but fluids are mixing up.
to prove the point i flushed the rad and it was flawless, super happy to not find any oil in there.as when i flushed the oil, the first 2 seconds there was only coolant in the damn pan.

it wasen't smoking,it wasen't leaking,where would my damn coolant could go, i founded that bitch...in the oil pan

i got a spare engine , i'll swap everything(turbokit, reroute intake,VC) and i'll just change the engine while i can find what's up with this one. it's gonna take a day and 50$, i can afford that to drive the damn car without worrying.