Notices
Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: KPower

Dead Engine Autopsy (picture intensive)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 04:18 PM
  #21  
miata2fast's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,145
Total Cats: 175
From: Dover, FL
Default

You have a detonation problem on all 4 cylinders clearly. Those clean spots on the piston edges and ridges are not good. I would rule out the coolant reroute, and concentrate on tuning issues. I think you have the timing way to hot.

When you pull the pistons, report on how much tension you have in the rings. Over heating would make them weak, and you will notice cylinder wall scuffing and piston scuffing. Detonation will not necessarily have an affect on ring tension. Over heating will.
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 04:46 PM
  #22  
johnmatt's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 896
Total Cats: 0
From: Jax, Fl
Default

Originally Posted by wayne_curr
Your detonation doesn't look nearly as bad as mine did though.
Got ya beat
Name:  100_0354.jpg
Views: 102
Size:  107.8 KB
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 05:38 PM
  #23  
Braineack's Avatar
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 80,552
Total Cats: 4,368
From: Chantilly, VA
Default

Old Jul 22, 2010 | 05:54 PM
  #24  
gospeed81's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,257
Total Cats: 26
From: Spring, TX
Default

You pussies don't even know what det is...

Name:  930c50d3.jpg
Views: 95
Size:  108.3 KB

Name:  708abca2.jpg
Views: 99
Size:  127.4 KB

Name:  7ce84d1a.jpg
Views: 87
Size:  81.5 KB
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 06:17 PM
  #25  
levnubhin's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,329
Total Cats: 12
From: Va Beach
Default

You ******* need to learn how to tune lol.

<- hopes to never eat those words.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 06:43 PM
  #26  
wayne_curr's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,712
Total Cats: 5
From: Bellingham, Wa
Default

This should all be making Mr. Ganger feel better about his engine.

Name:  DSCF0498.jpg
Views: 108
Size:  124.5 KB
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 06:48 PM
  #27  
hustler's Avatar
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
From: Republic of Dallas
Default

lol @ pushing it and not finding the conservative happy place.
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 08:46 PM
  #28  
90R's Avatar
90R
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 278
Total Cats: 0
Default

why do #1 & #2 rods have rust on them?

is the head flat?
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 11:13 PM
  #29  
gospeed81's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,257
Total Cats: 26
From: Spring, TX
Default

Originally Posted by hustler
lol @ pushing it and not finding the conservative happy place.
My tune was conservative, for me. Water injection, Brainy's advance dialed back a few degrees...

You know who killed mine, you met him. Let him borrow it over Christmas break and he brought it back smoking.


New tune will be higher resolution MS2, crank trigger, and real, new injectors. Water injection soon to come, just missed a good deal from Sav, but eyeing splittime's setup.




Dopple, I'm in to see where your tuning went wrong as well. I thought my timing advance table was gravy, but you can see from the above there were some bad spots in it that ate up the motor during consecutive pulls (although he said he was eating up STis and such and having fun, so oh well).
Old Jul 22, 2010 | 11:54 PM
  #30  
Doppelgänger's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
From: Charlotte, NC
Default

Well, it was tuned by a VERY respectable tuner here in GA. The guys tunes TONS of stuff...everything from carb'ed turbo cars, to SPEED challenge cars, to Spec Miatas, to high-strung all motor Hondas. I trust him. Actually, I was running that tune since a month after I bought the car. Tracked it, drove it across the country, daily'ed it...everything. Something happened pretty quickly..as in within a couple of weeks before the failure. I'm almost wondering about a bad tank of gas that I got the week before at some podunk station in Alabama.

Cylinder walls are perfect and the cross-hatching is visible as it should be. No scoring, gouging or scratches at all.
Old Jul 26, 2010 | 10:44 PM
  #31  
AutoFreak57's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 587
Total Cats: 99
From: Louisville, KY
Default

How many miles did you have on that setup again? I think it was a lot if I remember right
Old Jul 26, 2010 | 11:00 PM
  #32  
Doppelgänger's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
From: Charlotte, NC
Default

FWIW, I wiped the carbon off the pistons tonight and found some small pitting on #1 and #2 by the exhaust valve area but not much on #3 or #4.

Edit- fuckit here are pics of the pistons with a little rubbing off...

piston #1



#2 on right #3 on left



#2 close



cross-hatching



#4


Last edited by Doppelgänger; Jul 26, 2010 at 11:23 PM.
Old Jul 26, 2010 | 11:24 PM
  #33  
lordrigamus's Avatar
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,482
Total Cats: 0
From: Tinley Park, IL
Default

What about air temps? I've seen the hottest AITs ever in my car during this never ending heat wave. Yesterday was the nicest day we've had in two months up here.

I agree with the above mentioned thoughts as well. 1&2 look bad and the#1 rod does look bent. Don't be surprised if the ring lands fall off of #1 when you pull it. Post that spark map anyway, inquiring minds want to know.
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 08:28 AM
  #34  
sixshooter's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,204
Total Cats: 3,560
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

So Doppelganger, do you think the reroute with the 01+ headgasket was the primary problem or do you think your tune needed less spark advance when IATs get above a certain threshold as was proposed by Lordrigamus?
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 08:55 AM
  #35  
Doppelgänger's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
From: Charlotte, NC
Default

I think it was the reroute. Seems the lack of flow around the topend on 1 & 2 indeed caused excessive heat/detonation. I will be adding a front t-stat and plumbing to my reroute very shortly.
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 09:15 AM
  #36  
miata2fast's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,145
Total Cats: 175
From: Dover, FL
Default

I have my doubts about the reroute. All four pistons look like they have been in a tumbler. That is not a overheating issue That is many miles of fun.

Let's face it, a boosted engine that is beat on is not going to come out unscathed with stock pistons forever. Even with a conservative map.
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 09:16 AM
  #37  
Doppelgänger's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
From: Charlotte, NC
Default

Originally Posted by lordrigamus
What about air temps? I've seen the hottest AITs ever in my car during this never ending heat wave. Yesterday was the nicest day we've had in two months up here.

I agree with the above mentioned thoughts as well. 1&2 look bad and the#1 rod does look bent. Don't be surprised if the ring lands fall off of #1 when you pull it. Post that spark map anyway, inquiring minds want to know.
Originally Posted by sixshooter
So Doppelganger, do you think the reroute with the 01+ headgasket was the primary problem or do you think your tune needed less spark advance when IATs get above a certain threshold as was proposed by Lordrigamus?

I don't have a map on my work computer, but I do have a 1st-4th gear pull .csv log where you can see what my timing was doing under boost
Attached Files
File Type: zip
1st 2nd 3rd 4th run 2.zip (3.6 KB, 34 views)
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 09:18 AM
  #38  
Doppelgänger's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
From: Charlotte, NC
Default

Originally Posted by miata2fast
I have my doubts about the reroute. All four pistons look like they have been in a tumbler. That is not a overheating issue That is many miles of fun.

Let's face it, a boosted engine that is beat on is not going to come out unscathed with stock pistons forever. Even with a conservative map.
True, but there is obviously more issues with 1&2 where it's known that the design of the 01+ HG reduces coolant flow significantly.
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 12:14 PM
  #39  
fooger03's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,149
Total Cats: 230
From: Columbus, OH
Default

Just out of curiosity, you weren't the one that posted a recent vid of your car hitting 26 psi, were you?
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 12:21 PM
  #40  
Doppelgänger's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,850
Total Cats: 71
From: Charlotte, NC
Default

nope, not me.



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:30 PM.