intenseapple

I had been running my "custom" turbo kit on my 1.8 NA for about 6 months before tragedy struck. I had just replaced my old turbo (which had worked up enough shaft play to start contacting blades with housings) and done an oil change. Drove the car around for a few hours and checked the oil before and after -- all seemed fine. Car was boosting fine, no knock, no odd noises. That same evening I took it out for another drive and again all seemed well until the car died on the interstate. No odd noises, no warning; it just shut off while going 60. I checked the oil -- nothing on the dipstick. After adding some more oil I determined that there had still been around a quart left (enough to not show on the dipstick). I tried starting it again and got cranking, fuel, and presumably spark, but it would not stay alive or really even start at all.

After a long push to a gas station and a tow the next morning, I've got the car back home. I can speculate all day about what happened but I have yet to get under it and see what really went wrong so I'll post an update with some pics as soon as I get around to it. Bottom line is, there is a very good chance my motor is TOAST. If that is the case, what's a better option moving forward? I could buy a used 1.8 for ~$500 or I could rebuild and/or replace the bottom end with some more durable goodies. The latter of those options is much more expensive and time consuming. I am curious as to whether it is really worth it to go and build the motor or if replacing it is enough. My goal for the car is to make it a ~200-220whp (at 12 PSI) daily driver and I am not planning on trying for more than that, but I'd rather NOT have to deal with another engine blowing up. Any advice is appreciated and if your curious on anything (specs, tune, etc) feel free to ask and I'll post!

gooflophaze

While I understand the technicians mindset of "assume the worst and work backwards from that" - without noise, noticeable loss of power, smoke, burning - I doubt you need to look at an engine replacement this early. Even if there is damage to the engine, it's nothing but speculation until you tear apart the engine and see if it needs bearings. But I wouldn't even bother going that far yet. Run a compression test, if compression is good, drain and fill the oil, inspect the oil filter media and see if there are any large pieces of metal, and then look at other things as to why it stopped. CAS failure comes to mind. Fuel pump is another.

intenseapple

That's my plan. I'll get under her some time this week and inspect the oil and filter -- hopefully I don't find anything shiny. I am doubting there is a fuel system failure as I definitely smelled the unburnt fuel when I tried to start it but it's worth a check! What are symptoms of CAS failure? It definitely felt like the timing was WAY off when I tried starting it. Like every cylinder was misfiring lol.

gooflophaze

So the CAS failure's I've heard about have 2 failure modes: A. Works when cold, starts to misfire/fail when hot, works when cold again - and B. Dead.

Annoying when you replace a CAS failure mode A that then dies with mode B within 3 months and think "Oh it can't be that! I just swapped that!".

Could also be you skipped a tooth or 3 on the timing belt.

msmola2002

Did you break a timing belt?

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

I would pull the VC and check this,

intenseapple

I checked the exhaust camshaft (through the oil fill) before and after cranking and it moved so I am assuming it’s not the TB — I also just had it changed less than a month ago. Doesn’t hurt to double check though.

technicalninja

The answer to your initial question is replace with a stock used engine for 200-220 HP
I would not tear one down unless I wanted to exceed 250hp and then it would be to upgrade rods first.
No reason to spend big money unless you wanted 300+ and at that point the car gets vicious and reliability becomes more challenging.
If you just want 220 stay stock and save your money for other upgrades.
The above is only applicable if your current engine is toast.
A compression test is what I would do next if the cams turn when cranking.
If compression is weird, pull timing covers to check cam timing (jumped belt) and if timing is correct then
Find a good used engine.
I'd upgrade to a later engine (99+) from a early 1.8. Ports are higher which flow better.

huesmann

iTrader: (1)

Can't really proceed with a rebuild until you figure out what happened to your other 3 qt of oil.

intenseapple

Update: I pulled the spark plugs out of boredom and found that cylinder #2 had somehow smashed the tip against the electrode -- That explains my misfire issue. I checked the threads for the plug and those appear untouched so I don't think the spark plug was protruding too far. My other two thoughts are damaged rod/bearing or debris in the cylinder. I'm getting a compression tester and endoscope tomorrow to take a look into the cylinder and see if I find anything out of the ordinary. Eyeballing the cylinder through the spark plug hole, it is significantly darker and wetter than the other three, however the wetness is almost certainly just unburnt fuel from my attempt to crank it. My question now is, assuming I don't find anything in the cylinder and the compression looks okay, what kind of internal damage could I be looking at?

intenseapple

Update #2: I checked compression (these are all cold numbers btw):
Cylinder 1: 150
Cylinder 2: 130 (the one with the bad plug)
Cylinder 3: 160
Cylinder 4: 160

Noticeable difference in cylinder 2. I also used a borescope to look into each of the pistons and there was debris in piston #2 -- sucked it out with a vacuum because I couldn't get it with a magnet so I am assuming it is non-ferrous. I'm guessing engine damage, so I might have to pull that engine out and just throw a new one in -- unless someone has some rods they want to give away for free

gooflophaze

Any color to it? Wonder if it's brass FOD - check your throttle plate.

intenseapple

silvery — probably aluminum?

gooflophaze

ick.. well, I can't think of a good reason to not pull the head off at this point and get a good look to see if the bore is salvageable. That and drain the oil and look for big chunks.

intenseapple

That’s my plan, I might just pull the engine too. Probably doesn’t hurt to take a look over everything since it’s a stock motor with 90k on it. I’ll probably upload my tune in another post as well and see if I my tune may have been the problem; No point in rebuilding or replacing a motor just to blow it up with a **** tune.

gooflophaze

Yeah, and want to see how much crap is in the oil that might've gotten into the turbo bearings. Pulling a cam cap and checking for metal in the aluminum is another suggestion.

intenseapple

Well I pulled the head today and made a disappointing discovery.

Chunk taken out of piston #2

Another look at cylinder #2

Cylinder #2 valves -- a bit banged up but no chips

There is a hefty chunk out of cylinder two as you can see -- not entirely sure how it happened. Maybe extreme detonation, but I think I would've noticed that... Any ideas as to what could've caused it? Also I'm not expert but from what I can see here, it looks like the cylinder wall isn't damages -- hopefully I can reuse the block.

I need advice on where to go from here. The engine has to come out one way or another, and if the bottom end is still intact then I am leaning towards dropping in forged rods and a new set of OEM pistons, thoughts?

SpartanSV

Pics of the other pistons and the chambers in the head from the adjacent cylinders please. In the shot of the head it looks like an adjacent cylinder is showing signs of detonation.

I looked at your tune and didn't see anything that was definitively responsible. You should include logs so we can see what the car was actually doing. What fuel are you running? Base timing was set when you installed the megasquirt right? If you rotate the mark on your balancer to the TDC mark on your timing cover is cylinder 1 at TDC?

intenseapple

Cylinder #1 (small bit taken out of the top left, right by the valve indent)

Cylinder #2 (you can tell whats wrong)

Cylinder #3 (definitely the best of the bunch, less carbon buildup and noo chips)

Cylinder #4 (It's hard to tell, but the left edge appears to be slightly disfigured -- metal is somewhat rough, almost like it overheated)

I'll get more pictures posted tomorrow -- one of each cylinder head chamber/valves... I'll add all the following info to my other post and a log as well. I've only run 91 since going turbo and the cam timing was a little off -- that will be in the pictures tomorrow. Thought it was odd when I popped the cam cover and saw that... I did set the timing on the megasquirt, I think it was right around -3* adjustment to get to 10*? Cylinder #1 isn't perfectly flush with the face of the block when the crank is lined up but damn near, should it be perfectly flush?

gooflophaze

Cylinder 4 looks a bit melty, wondering if your rings butted and destroyed cylinder 3. Cylinder 1's rod is probably bent.