Evans Waterless coolant - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-10-2013, 12:45 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Grants Pass, OR.
Posts: 449
Total Cats: 14
Default Evans Waterless coolant

I am tearing my engine down this winter and am thinking about refilling it with this waterless coolant. They now have a high performance formula and I am wondering if anyone here has tried it on a track car? This stuffs boiling point is 375*, so should help with hot spots. It is non corrosive. http://www.evanscooling.com/
jmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 01:10 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Theres a thread on this every few months either here on on M-Net. I want to try it, I also want to make sure my cooling system is leak free before I try it, which has been the delay. But it always seems that no one has used it.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 01:34 PM   #3
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 329
Total Cats: 16
Default

i don't see why this wouldn't work
now for the track...you may want to get a MSDS for it and see if it is acceptable.
i think some tracks requiere water only in case of crashes, there is less to clena up..
Alejo_NIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 01:37 PM   #4
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,202
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Saw Jay Leno's Garage episode on this stuff. Pretty cool. I'd wanna clean the everliving life out of the engine water passages and jackets before refilling with this stuff.

Actually I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that. Engine is out and on a stand, but I'm not sure if that helps
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 02:05 PM   #5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Grants Pass, OR.
Posts: 449
Total Cats: 14
Default

The guy on the video said you can have upto 3% water with no ill effects. I would think turning the engine upside down on the stand would get most out and then use air pressure for the heater core and you should be good to go.
My main concern for the track is how well does it conduct thermo cooling? Antifreeze raises the boiling point but is not as efficient at cooling as water.
jmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 02:14 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

It doesnt conduct heat as well as water in theory. But there also shouldnt be any localized boiling with it, so it might conduct heat better. Its really hard to say. Theoretically you can run the car hotter without damaging it as long as the higher temp doesnt create clearance issues with the pistons.

The water should eventually boil its way out after running the car since PEG doesnt raise the boiling temperature of the water left in it. I'd probably run the car with napa rad flush by the instructions then run the evans flush and then fill it.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #7
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

NorCal Rotary and Roadsters • View topic - Zero pressure cooling system (Evans NPG propylene glycol)

This is from 2010, these guys probably have a bit more data now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minime
go here: Home Engine Cooling Systems

I can tell you two guys that I know personally and highly recommend their opinions of all things automotive that run evans NPG in their hardcore turbo miatas:
JasonCsbb, aka Jason Cuadra(he will probably chime in here)
2/3rdsCobra - not a member of this forum, but is very active on mturbo.net and miataforum

There are several good reasons to switch to it and really the ONLY possible reason you might NOT want to run it(which is not really a big deal) is that if you do happen to have a coolant leak and you need to top off or refill the system you will have to search for another propylene glycol coolant such as Sierra brand coolant. You absolutely cannot mix water with propylene glycol and in fact you have to flush your system prior to refilling with evans. They sell a flush solution, but you can just buy a few gallons of Sierra and use that to dilute what little water is left in the system after you drain the coolant the first time.

Key reasons to switch:
Zero pressure system - no more blown hoses and no more buying replacement high pressure radiator caps.
Eliminates hot spots in the head(which is the primary cause of pre-combustion detonation) and the block.
Because there is no water vaporization(no hot spots) you can run significantly higher coolant temps without warping the head and causing detonation.
No need to let the turbo cool down, just turn the engine off and you will not hear the popping and hissing sounds as you hear when you run water + coolant - again, this is H2O vaporizing inside the hot turbo.
More even cooling, again - no h2o vaporization, so no hot spots.
NO corrosion, no rust, no scale deposits inside the cooling passages = wide open/clean coolant passages to allow better flow.

Case in point - When I was running MiniMe on the track BEFORE I rebuilt the engine and went turbo I was running a PWR aluminum radiator + I had the stage-2 cooling fan setup from FM(big *** SPAL paddle fan and smaller SPAL fan), wired together. On a 100*+ day I would only be able to run 2-3 laps before I pegged the temp gauge and had to do a cool down lap. I did not have a coolant reroute fwiw.

After I put on the turbo, the only other mod I was running NPG-R and added an an oil cooler - I still had no coolant reroute. On a hot day I would still peg the coolant gauge, but it took a bit longer(like 3-4 laps) and it krept up slower. I also ran one full lap without noticing the gauge was COMPLETELY pegged off the gauge. I know for a fact if I was running water + coolant or even pure water + purple ice/redline waterwetter I would have blown the head gasket and warped the **** out of the head. I was seriously worried, but I drove off the track and then around the paddock for a bit to let it cool off. I then drove out on the main road (out at Thill) for a few miles and when I got back to the paddock I popped the hood and NO leaks, NO noises - all was well.

That was enough proof to me that this **** works a hell of a lot better than water + coolant.

My buddy Myron(2/3rdsCobra) was the one who turned me onto it. He performed a test and drained his 50/50 dilution of coolant to distilled water. Within one day the coolant and water had completely separated. Think about what this does inside your head and block after you shut the car off for even just 1/2 a day - the water separates and starts to heavily corrode your block and leave deposits inside all of the cooling passages in the block and head. Not good.

It's the **** - I have 6 gallons of it waiting to go into the racecar and into minime's engine(once I get it R&R'd with the wiseco pistons).
Both minime and 2/3rdsCobra are users here on MT.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 12:25 AM   #8
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 166
Total Cats: 5
Default

I run the stuff in my dirt bike. With water based coolant, it would puke it guts out on steep/technical trails at altitude. With the Evens, never had it happen again. It might not run any cooler, but the coolant stays in the system. I would use it in my car if I had a cooling problem, but I havent had a problem.
GraemeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 10:01 AM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

Is this stuff track friendly? Meaning - if I burst a hose while on track, will the cleanup crew have to come out and clean it up while the wrecker crew pulls the other cars out of the armco that spun from it? Being glycol based, I assume not...
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 10:34 AM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,982
Total Cats: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
Is this stuff track friendly? Meaning - if I burst a hose while on track, will the cleanup crew have to come out and clean it up while the wrecker crew pulls the other cars out of the armco that spun from it? Being glycol based, I assume not...
^^^This I would think it is still slick.

I use a water wetter with distilled water. I generally see a 7 to 10 degree difference between distilled water and distilled + wetter. The generic version (green)worked better than the big name brand stuff.
miatauser884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 11:32 AM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,882
Total Cats: 45
Default

My brother ran it with his Aprilia Daytona Sportbike team in 2009.

It works if you use it correctly, but it's not magic. You have to find a zero pressure cap, you have to get every last bit of water out of the system for it to be really effective, and you have to be willing to run the system at ~250+F, which scares people for some reason. You also have to keep an eye on oil temps, as oil becomes the temperature limiting fluid in the engine at that point.

Also, most tracks will allow NPG-R if you ask the safety steward. You also have almost no chance of bursting a hose in a zero pressure system, and if you smashed the car up hard enough to let the coolant out, you probably oiled the track too, and I'd rather drive over coolant than oil...
vehicular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Do we need to run larger than the stock overflow tank? IIRC the NPG fluid expands like 3 times more than normal 50/50 mix with temperature.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 11:55 AM   #13
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

You don't HAVE to run a low pressure cap. I run a 5 psi cap fwiw.

No you don't need a larger overflow tank. I do notice the tank level goes up and down more with temperature.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,882
Total Cats: 45
Default

KWS Aprilia ran OEM over flow bottles too, I believe. I imagine the stock over flow bottle on a Miata is probably twice as large as it needs to be to accomodate Grandma's maintenance schedule.

BTW, NPG-R smells like grape jelly, but it DOES NOT taste like it. Avoid getting that stuff in your mouth at all cost. It is some serious kind of foul.
vehicular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 01:13 PM   #15
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

I knew someone who habitually tasted fluids that dripped to the ground and could identify them by taste. I dunno if he's still alive.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 01:15 PM   #16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Grants Pass, OR.
Posts: 449
Total Cats: 14
Default

On the Jay Leno video the guy says it is not poisonous to dogs or cats if spilt on the ground, and that it can be injested. I don't know how good it taste, but nice to know that if my dog licks a little he won't die.
jmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 01:18 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmann View Post
On the Jay Leno video the guy says it is not poisonous to dogs or cats if spilt on the ground, and that it can be injested. I don't know how good it taste, but nice to know that if my dog licks a little he won't die.
Yeah its just polyethylene glycol, they use it in the fill for paintballs, and you can eat those... The taste makes that inadvisable.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 04:15 PM   #18
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,687
Total Cats: 1,562
Default

Polyethylene glycol is a prescription laxative, iirc. They give you a jug to drink the night before you get certain procedures done. It ain't pretty what it does to a fella.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 07:58 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

Thats it! I'm adding a jug of Miralax to my coolant... and watch it **** everywhere

GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 08:02 PM   #20
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,930
Total Cats: 526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Saw Jay Leno's Garage episode on this stuff. Pretty cool. I'd wanna clean the everliving life out of the engine water passages and jackets before refilling with this stuff.

Actually I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that. Engine is out and on a stand, but I'm not sure if that helps
We run this stuff in our trials motorcycles. We trail ride them in the mountains which taxes the tiny radiators much more than they were designed to from the factory. Evans coolant solved our problems.

In order to get all the water out, we filled the system with rubbing alcohol, then drained it and blew some compressed air in it, then left the cap and drain open overnight. Filled with Evans and no issues.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MSPNPPro-MM0105: Coolant Temperature Output slomiata MEGAsquirt 5 10-07-2015 02:11 PM
Is my swirl pot design okay? FrankB Race Prep 10 10-02-2015 10:00 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM
Coolant port on intake side of head Sirnixalot Engine Performance 3 09-20-2015 10:45 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:33 PM.