Mudflap

Anyone out there following this guys work on Freevalve technology? He is using a BP to create a DIY freevalve setup. Very cool stuff. I would imagine this isn't cheap. I'd be interested in pricing out 16valves..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ljwk-ByvjI&t=38s&ab_channel=WesleyKagan

Dr.Sep

I’ve been watching!! I was surprised he chose BP, but interested to see — I support you in doing it and reporting back

WigglingWaffles

I cant wait to see where this project goes. His rendition with a small engine was impressive.

gooflophaze

This will not go as well as everyone think it will.

Mudflap

I'm always looking for a another **** to turn. I'm interested in getting some brains on this subject. I imagine the controls (electronics, measurements) isn't too bad, I picture the build quality of a DIY actuator is the big problem. Longevity of the actuator being right behind that..

technicalninja

Controlling the valve train via computer IS the "final frontier" in internal combustion engines.
We will see this happen before most of us pass away.
It will NOT happen on youtube on a Mazda BP engine.
It will most likely happen with a company that is currently controlling direct injection systems or common rail diesel injection.
We're talking Bosch, Denso, or Delphi...

Warpspeed

Have to agree.

Erat

iTrader: (5)

Old video link broke?

deezums

iTrader: (3)

What's the valve total actuation time in milliseconds at redline?

Because 6,000RPM is 100RPS, 50 total engine cycles meaning 200 strokes per second. That's 5ms per stroke.

https://github.com/Tamaren1/Freevalve_Arduino/issues/6

These solenoids are supposed to have a deadtime of around 12ms. 8ms on, 4ms off.

I am afraid the pneumatics are going to need to be a little more complicated than cheap solenoids and push connects...

Erat

iTrader: (5)

In the video he said he has 2ms valves and they're on backorder. May not even get 6000rpm out of it.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I've no doubt that this project will end in tragedy. Or, at best, a system which doesn't work very well at all, hits a performance limit long before redline, etc.

None the less, I admire the courage and curiosity on display here. Even if no usable product comes out of it, even attempting such a project is inherently cool.

gooflophaze

A few things to consider - magnets epoxied into a 3d printed timing wheel, no missing tooth, controlling valves on an 8bit arduino running mosfets from a breadboard.

gesso

iTrader: (1)

Free valve is cool and probably the actual future, but I keep thinking about rotary valve trains... (Bishop, Saunders, Watson)

I'm tempted to buy a HF predator single cylinder engine and attempt it, but I have enough projects already, so I probably shouldn't...

If you're interested in rotary valve trains, this is a good read:
Ralph Watson - Rotary Valve Engine

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Rotary valve is a cool idea, but

A: It's difficult to physically implement with an equivalently large effective port area while still maintaining a high static CR, and

II: It ignores the biggest theoretical advantage of the free-valve design, which is infinitely variable duration and timing.


Again, I am fairly certain that this specific project is doomed to failure. Either because it fails to perform adequately, or because fire and metal fragments will exit the vehicle in spectacular fashion.

But that doesn't take away from the cool factor. It's like building a binary calculator out of wood and formed brass. Totally impractical, but awesome.

Warpspeed

Its not just a case of opening and closing the valves, but getting ACCURATE consistent valve timing, and having something that does not totally destroy itself in ten minutes.

Oh it works at 6,000 rpm, but sometimes the valve overlap is five degrees, sometimes its fifty degrees, the valves sort of just flop open and flop shut, but the engine runs fine.

At 6,000 rpm that is 100 revs second or 10ms.
One revolution equals 360 crank degrees (in 10 mS)

If you want +/- 3.6 degree accuracy which might be barely o/k but far from brilliant, you would need to have the entire mess operate to within +/- 100uS repeatable accuracy. 10uS would be more like it.

Now start thinking about fuel injector latency time, and realise that a poppet valve and its operating mechanism is a lot larger and a lot heavier than a fuel injector pintle, and it moves much further too.
Just getting an air solenoid to work would be a challenge, but moving the valve is a whole bigger problem.
Just crashing the valve into the seat with enormous force is not a good idea, and whatever finally stops the valve at full lift is going to get a really good hammering too.

Koenigsegg has solved all the problems, but then he is not only a genius, but he has the financial resources to do it.

technicalninja

When this is realized certain things will no longer be needed.
No more cams, valve train, cam drives..
Much smaller oil pump requirements.
Cylinder heads will change dramatically. Maybe be eliminated, replaced with an actuator assembly.
It will be possible to cool the engine with airflow through the intake track (GM sort of does this now-limp mode in Northstars). No more cooling system.
No more throttle or intake at all. Reduces pumping losses. Intake "actuators" control engine speed.
BMW already does this with Valvetronic (sort of)
Possibly no more ignition system. Ignition will operate similar to current diesels.
Will be able to burn most fuels. Dynamic compression can be altered at a whim.
Starters will not be needed (GM tried this 20 years ago with limited success).

It will make internal combustion powertrains substantially cheaper to build.
It will have far better efficiency than anything current offered.
The engine packages will be lighter and physically smaller.
It will require less material to produce; cheaper.

All the big suppliers are working on this and have been for years.
Quietly...
No one has come up with a truly workable solution.

The only power source IMO that has enough force is something similar to a common rail diesel injection system.
Currently these systems can exceed 25,000 PSI at the injector.
Building a light weight actuator that can operate quickly at these levels will be the "Trick".
The company that brings this to the masses will own the automotive industry...

No one has done this yet.

Koenigsegg is brilliant but he's not there either.
After this comes out EVERYONE will know.
All manufactures will have to use this or go bankrupt.

It's a bit like the "Holy Grail" of internal combustion engines.

sacmiata

Off topic somewhat but on-topic of the radical opportunities for improvement that are being attempted either in public view or behind closed doors.

In 1999 I was touring colleges and I had family that worked in the engineering department at UC Davis so I got to walk through there labs and one of the particular projects they were working on was a variable compression head. The head literally could slide up and down block (more like jugs) and lower/raise the compression. It was a small 4 cylinder (with a very large head) and it was on a engine dyno if I remember right so I assume it ran - the head was on jack screws that were operated electrically to raise/lower the head (assumed it sealed with o-rings on the side vs traditional head gasket). 20 years later yeah there is still no variable compression engines but the point is there is some incredible stuff out there being developed that even if 5% of it pans out and is scalable will still be awesome for us (fuel injection, VTEC, GDI, windshield wipers!).

This might not pan out to run as good or better then a traditional BP but I do hope it at least pans out for better opportunities for him. Its guys like this that hopefully end up in a place with more funding/capabilities then a 2 car garage with a warped BP head that can offer so we can get that 1000hp NA 1.8 BP motor.

gooflophaze

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-fuel-economy/
https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TEC...bo_engine.html

sacmiata

Looks like variable compression did become a thing....appears they started around the same time in 1998....so maybe in 20 years we can hope to see freevalve technology in Miata's.

Either way this guy took on a cool project that is coincidentally Miata related and I look forward to seeing his progress regardless of the end results.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Read up on the Saab story a few years ago, and yeah, you can get rid of cams, timing belt/chain, most the valve cover, pretty cool ****.

https://jalopnik.com/what-its-like-t...ine-1529865968