Gauging interest in Ti valves?
So awhile ago I ran this thread over on cr and learned that most guys over there are not super big spenders in the engine department. Now I ask you guys, is there any interest in buying a set of Titanium Valves with BeCu Valve Seats.
Now, this is just looking to see if anyone would be on board. Okay, so for the long part, I asked a guy if he could make me some valves. He said he could but I would have to buy at least 40 seats. I can have as many valves as I need. So I got quotes as if I had 4 other people come in on them with me. So the quote: 40 intake $97.75 each 40 intake seats $17.50 each 40 exhaust $100.25 each 40 exhaust seats $17.50 each. Now this is subject to change, but all I am doing is seeing if people would even think about this. |
I think it'll be hard to find people in the miata world willing to spend 2k on valves and seats alone. Which is a shame, because I like fancy parts and am hoping to be proven wrong.
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Me too, however this works out I will still have to buy 40 sets. He won't machine any less in the valve seats so... Thats how it is.
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I find it hard to believe that it costs that much to convert over to Titanium. Not saying my statement is valid, but damn. Have you consulted with other valve train manufacturers?
It is something I had contemplated, but thought it was out of reach for me, so I never looked into it. I am curious as to how much gain this modification would net. |
Originally Posted by miata2fast
(Post 1042239)
I find it hard to believe that it costs that much to convert over to Titanium. Not saying my statement is valid, but damn. Have you consulted with other valve train manufacturers?
It is something I had contemplated, but thought it was out of reach for me, so I never looked into it. I am curious as to how much gain this modification would net. It lightens the top end weight and makes the engine more rev happy. They are stronger than stainless valves. Lastly the instant throttle response is even crisper. Which is perfect for me. Long term goals, lightened flywheel and pulleys, stroker kit, irtbs, supercharger, 6 speed, and even more... all in the search for instant pedal feel. |
So no chance if 4 more guys. I have thought about buying all the sets myself and building 4 heads the same way I am building mine and selling them off to cover the cost of my head.
Maybe a couple of people would be into that? |
Damn..... as cool as that would be... i just cant justify the price (for my own build)... there are guys running soooooooooo much power on the stainless valves, with no issues whatsoever
Very cool though... and gets my mind going.... but, damn........ |
Originally Posted by supercooper
(Post 1042417)
Damn..... as cool as that would be... i just cant justify the price (for my own build)... there are guys running soooooooooo much power on the stainless valves, with no issues whatsoever
Very cool though... and gets my mind going.... but, damn........ That is a lot of money to put up front. |
Going Ti valves would be pretty long down on the prio list and with my logic only be interesting for the 4th or 5th engine trying to squeeze the last out when faced with a regulation making it "worth it".
Going that deep into a build have IMHO nothing to do with of the shelf "goodies" regarding any part involved in the airflow (OK, ST valves are OTS and good enough for a lot of engines, unsure about exhaust for high boost though). |
There is but 1 or 2 people on this whole forum, of which you are 1, that are stupid enough or silly enough to spend 2k on valves.
We boost our cars because its the most bang for the buck. We drive lowly BP's, and anyone stupid enough to sink that kinda cash into an n/a or supercharger build just hates himself or is really that dumb, or is so rich and ballin that they can't think of more challenging ways to throw away money. And comments like this:
Originally Posted by Swanky
(Post 1042269)
It lightens the top end weight and makes the engine more rev happy. They are stronger than stainless valves. Lastly the instant throttle response is even crisper. Which is perfect for me. Long term goals, lightened flywheel and pulleys, stroker kit, irtbs, supercharger, 6 speed, and even more... all in the search for instant pedal feel. Good luck with your 40 sets of valves, or 5 extra heads or whatever. I hope you're prepared to lose a ginormous chunk of money "in the name of science" lolol |
Most valve manufacturers don't recommend Ti for boosted applications because they retain heat better than steel. Most manufacturers also recommend Beryllium copper seats and valve guides to guarantee long valve life. Plus beryllium is toxic when aerosolized so some machine shops won't cut the valve seats. There are other companies that make copper alloys with out beryllium but they are still expensive.
The problem as stated above is that the bp isn't a high revving unit and outside of drag racing the turbos most of us use run out of steam before the benefits of a marginally lightened valve train would be effective. You might look into other custom features like hollow valve stems in steel valves to reduce valve weight as a more cost effective and boost friendly solution |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1042436)
Are going to get you laughed off the forum.
Good luck with your 40 sets of valves, or 5 extra heads or whatever. I hope you're prepared to lose a ginormous chunk of money "in the name of science" lolol |
Because a BP isn't a race car motor. That's why.
But that's just my opinion, don't let me stop you from doing it lol If I was making it rain I'd be doing an engine swap and investing money into a engine worth investing money into. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1042436)
There is but 1 or 2 people on this whole forum, of which you are 1, that are stupid enough or silly enough to spend 2k on valves.
We boost our cars because its the most bang for the buck. We drive lowly BP's, and anyone stupid enough to sink that kinda cash into an n/a or supercharger build just hates himself or is really that dumb, or is so rich and ballin that they can't think of more challenging ways to throw away money. I see a special kind of irony in someone who's stupid enough to purchase a C5 automatic criticizing the automotive purchasing choices of others :dealwithit: |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1042808)
Because a BP isn't a race car motor. That's why.
But that's just my opinion, don't let me stop you from doing it lol
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1042817)
Different strokes for different folks, dude.
I see a special kind of irony in someone who's stupid enough to purchase a C5 automatic criticizing the automotive purchasing choices of others :dealwithit: And since we're on the subject: why don't you please please please tell me what's wrong with a daily driver c5 auto? If I was spending 10k on an engine, it would be an LSx or f20c or something, not a bp. Like you said, different strokes, but when you can have a lot more power with the same reliability for almost the same money I'll take that option. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1042817)
... or maybe you want a bombproof 170whp N/A powerplant that you can thrash on track for a few years without worrying ...
Even proper grade Ti have poor wear characteristics and I would suggest checking regularly (every 10 race hour at least). Yes there are Ti in production vehicles, but you would then assume that they have freedom with every related part (design spring rate/pressure as they wish), not just slam it in there and add the next available spring just to make sure. Tear it down every 8-10 hours, fine, then you know what you are doing and can judge the benefits yourself. |
It doesn't matter.
He makes money building BP's for people, not other engines. the more money they waste on a BP the more money he makes. Therefore everyone should spend ALLOFIT. |
The best part was when OP posted this on ClubRoadster first and then seemed indignant that the swaggots over there didn't want to spend the money on these things.
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1042999)
The best part was when OP posted this on ClubRoadster first and then seemed indignant that the swaggots over there didn't want to spend the money on these things.
To the guy who said stay away from Ti valves: What you say has a valid point but (and this is a big but) I am not looking to do the stuff to the valves that causes failure. No turbo (at most a supercharger with low psi) and all the proper supporting mods to back it up ie. ti retainers, becu seats. Now am I saying that they will go without failure? No, I know how they can fail and why they do, so maybe that could help me make mine last way longer. And if this option ends out being way too expensive, I will just take my time finding a 323 gtr head with it's better airflow and sodium valves (even though they aren't oversized) and go with that path (which I would still build the valve train and the cams to the spec I needed). Who knows. |
so not only do they cost 2k, but are more prone to fail than stainless? hahaha
#swaggotry |
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