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Old 08-10-2013, 02:58 AM   #1
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Default Gauging interest in Ti valves?

So awhile ago I ran this thread over on cr and learned that most guys over there are not super big spenders in the engine department. Now I ask you guys, is there any interest in buying a set of Titanium Valves with BeCu Valve Seats.

Now, this is just looking to see if anyone would be on board. Okay, so for the long part, I asked a guy if he could make me some valves. He said he could but I would have to buy at least 40 seats. I can have as many valves as I need. So I got quotes as if I had 4 other people come in on them with me.

So the quote:

40 intake $97.75 each
40 intake seats $17.50 each
40 exhaust $100.25 each
40 exhaust seats $17.50 each.

Now this is subject to change, but all I am doing is seeing if people would even think about this.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:07 AM   #2
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I think it'll be hard to find people in the miata world willing to spend 2k on valves and seats alone. Which is a shame, because I like fancy parts and am hoping to be proven wrong.
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:00 PM   #3
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Me too, however this works out I will still have to buy 40 sets. He won't machine any less in the valve seats so... Thats how it is.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:54 PM   #4
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I find it hard to believe that it costs that much to convert over to Titanium. Not saying my statement is valid, but damn. Have you consulted with other valve train manufacturers?

It is something I had contemplated, but thought it was out of reach for me, so I never looked into it. I am curious as to how much gain this modification would net.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:20 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I find it hard to believe that it costs that much to convert over to Titanium. Not saying my statement is valid, but damn. Have you consulted with other valve train manufacturers?

It is something I had contemplated, but thought it was out of reach for me, so I never looked into it. I am curious as to how much gain this modification would net.
I have consulted a handful of other manufacturers and this is the best price from a reputable company. Now there are cheaper companies but I know what can happen when you use cheap titanium.

It lightens the top end weight and makes the engine more rev happy. They are stronger than stainless valves. Lastly the instant throttle response is even crisper. Which is perfect for me.

Long term goals, lightened flywheel and pulleys, stroker kit, irtbs, supercharger, 6 speed, and even more... all in the search for instant pedal feel.

Last edited by Swanky; 08-11-2013 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:56 PM   #6
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So no chance if 4 more guys. I have thought about buying all the sets myself and building 4 heads the same way I am building mine and selling them off to cover the cost of my head.

Maybe a couple of people would be into that?
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:17 PM   #7
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Damn..... as cool as that would be... i just cant justify the price (for my own build)... there are guys running soooooooooo much power on the stainless valves, with no issues whatsoever
Very cool though... and gets my mind going.... but, damn........
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:02 PM   #8
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Damn..... as cool as that would be... i just cant justify the price (for my own build)... there are guys running soooooooooo much power on the stainless valves, with no issues whatsoever
Very cool though... and gets my mind going.... but, damn........
Yeah. This is why I cannot imagine buying all 5 sets, and building 5 heads and selling the other 4. Really expensive up front but I would have them professionally ported and polished (I know polishing your valve passages is highly controversial but a mild polish causes the passage to be smoother and doesn't have the adverse effects of a full mirror polish) fully build valve train. Maruha Cams, Toda Cam gears, and lots of forged goodies. A high guess of what my head will cost is $7500.

That is a lot of money to put up front.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:38 PM   #9
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Going Ti valves would be pretty long down on the prio list and with my logic only be interesting for the 4th or 5th engine trying to squeeze the last out when faced with a regulation making it "worth it".

Going that deep into a build have IMHO nothing to do with of the shelf "goodies" regarding any part involved in the airflow (OK, ST valves are OTS and good enough for a lot of engines, unsure about exhaust for high boost though).
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:51 PM   #10
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There is but 1 or 2 people on this whole forum, of which you are 1, that are stupid enough or silly enough to spend 2k on valves.

We boost our cars because its the most bang for the buck. We drive lowly BP's, and anyone stupid enough to sink that kinda cash into an n/a or supercharger build just hates himself or is really that dumb, or is so rich and ballin that they can't think of more challenging ways to throw away money.

And comments like this:
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Originally Posted by Swanky View Post

It lightens the top end weight and makes the engine more rev happy. They are stronger than stainless valves. Lastly the instant throttle response is even crisper. Which is perfect for me.

Long term goals, lightened flywheel and pulleys, stroker kit, irtbs, supercharger, 6 speed, and even more... all in the search for instant pedal feel.
Are going to get you laughed off the forum.

Good luck with your 40 sets of valves, or 5 extra heads or whatever. I hope you're prepared to lose a ginormous chunk of money "in the name of science" lolol
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:16 PM   #11
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Most valve manufacturers don't recommend Ti for boosted applications because they retain heat better than steel. Most manufacturers also recommend Beryllium copper seats and valve guides to guarantee long valve life. Plus beryllium is toxic when aerosolized so some machine shops won't cut the valve seats. There are other companies that make copper alloys with out beryllium but they are still expensive.
The problem as stated above is that the bp isn't a high revving unit and outside of drag racing the turbos most of us use run out of steam before the benefits of a marginally lightened valve train would be effective.
You might look into other custom features like hollow valve stems in steel valves to reduce valve weight as a more cost effective and boost friendly solution
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:59 PM   #12
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Are going to get you laughed off the forum.

Good luck with your 40 sets of valves, or 5 extra heads or whatever. I hope you're prepared to lose a ginormous chunk of money "in the name of science" lolol
I don't get why. I understand you daily drive your car, right now so do I. But I plan on building a full on race car for the track. So when I drive my *** off, I like to know that what I built will stay together. I don't want to spend a "ginormous chunk of money" but if the situation arises I have no problem doubling my buying price of the valves and seats.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:04 PM   #13
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Because a BP isn't a race car motor. That's why.
But that's just my opinion, don't let me stop you from doing it lol

If I was making it rain I'd be doing an engine swap and investing money into a engine worth investing money into.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
There is but 1 or 2 people on this whole forum, of which you are 1, that are stupid enough or silly enough to spend 2k on valves.

We boost our cars because its the most bang for the buck. We drive lowly BP's, and anyone stupid enough to sink that kinda cash into an n/a or supercharger build just hates himself or is really that dumb, or is so rich and ballin that they can't think of more challenging ways to throw away money.
Different strokes for different folks, dude. Just because you can't understand why someone would drop some serious coin on a high-power N/A BP doesn't mean there aren't good reasons to do it for the people out there who are willing and able to spend the money. Maybe you want a motor built to a specific ruleset, or maybe you want a bombproof 170whp N/A powerplant that you can thrash on track for a few years without worrying about all the heat management issues a turbo system brings.

I see a special kind of irony in someone who's stupid enough to purchase a C5 automatic criticizing the automotive purchasing choices of others
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Because a BP isn't a race car motor. That's why.
But that's just my opinion, don't let me stop you from doing it lol
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Different strokes for different folks, dude.

I see a special kind of irony in someone who's stupid enough to purchase a C5 automatic criticizing the automotive purchasing choices of others
Hence the 2nd sentence.
And since we're on the subject: why don't you please please please tell me what's wrong with a daily driver c5 auto?

If I was spending 10k on an engine, it would be an LSx or f20c or something, not a bp. Like you said, different strokes, but when you can have a lot more power with the same reliability for almost the same money I'll take that option.

Last edited by 18psi; 08-13-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:08 AM   #16
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... or maybe you want a bombproof 170whp N/A powerplant that you can thrash on track for a few years without worrying ...
Then you should stay away from Ti in any part possible IMHO.
Even proper grade Ti have poor wear characteristics and I would suggest checking regularly (every 10 race hour at least).
Yes there are Ti in production vehicles, but you would then assume that they have freedom with every related part (design spring rate/pressure as they wish), not just slam it in there and add the next available spring just to make sure.

Tear it down every 8-10 hours, fine, then you know what you are doing and can judge the benefits yourself.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:56 AM   #17
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It doesn't matter.

He makes money building BP's for people, not other engines. the more money they waste on a BP the more money he makes. Therefore everyone should spend ALLOFIT.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:09 AM   #18
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The best part was when OP posted this on ClubRoadster first and then seemed indignant that the swaggots over there didn't want to spend the money on these things.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:23 AM   #19
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The best part was when OP posted this on ClubRoadster first and then seemed indignant that the swaggots over there didn't want to spend the money on these things.
Well I was hoping that maybe a couple of guys over there would be into it, but none the less... I came here. Swaggotry is a great name for it.

To the guy who said stay away from Ti valves: What you say has a valid point but (and this is a big but) I am not looking to do the stuff to the valves that causes failure. No turbo (at most a supercharger with low psi) and all the proper supporting mods to back it up ie. ti retainers, becu seats. Now am I saying that they will go without failure? No, I know how they can fail and why they do, so maybe that could help me make mine last way longer.

And if this option ends out being way too expensive, I will just take my time finding a 323 gtr head with it's better airflow and sodium valves (even though they aren't oversized) and go with that path (which I would still build the valve train and the cams to the spec I needed). Who knows.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:33 AM   #20
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so not only do they cost 2k, but are more prone to fail than stainless? hahaha

#swaggotry
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