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Godless Commie decides to build a catch can...
Well, more like a breather tank.
The whole thing originated HERE, with me asking some questions about venting the crankcase.. Then @sixshooter pretty much showed me the way. I was convinced. One problem: My engine bay is crowded already. Like Walmart on Black Friday crowded. There is no room for a catch can. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/sFoWXX.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/sWHPdV.jpg I needed to get creative... |
I decided to relocate the windshield washer bottle next to the intake manifold and fab a breather tank there.
The washer bottle could live inside the front bumper, under the right headlight. So, I started with the washer bottle... I begun by obtaining a washer bottle made for a Fiat Linea. They are manufactured here, parts are plenty and cheap... Here is what I bought: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...290ad102a1.jpg I knew I would have to perform some surgery... https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7d74b65f06.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fe3d07d7c2.jpg I probably supported the thing more than necessary, but I'm fairly confident it will not fly out of the car on the freeway... Since it would be damn inconvenient to get under the car to fill the bottle, I went ahead and made a nifty fiiller neck next to the headlight, too. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/qVR6m3.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/nS3qmB.jpg A new water line and extending the power and ground wires (in proper cable sheathing) finished that part of the catch can project. (Increased water capacity was a bonus - also, this Linea pump has much more power, too) |
On to the actual catch can / breather tank thing...
First and foremost, I would use hard lines. * If done correctly, a hard line setup looks like it belongs there. * It will raise fewer eyebrows come inspection time. * Looks pretty cool, and * I had promised myself I would do it this way when the time came. Made a couple calls and found someone who knows someone who has a pretty good tube bender. The only catch was it was for 16 mm tubing. Which meant my lines would not be 5/8 ID (16 mm). They are 9/16 ID (14 mm) instead. Steve, will this be a problem? I have no choke points, ID is uniform all the way to the breather tank. Anyway... I started bending. The tubing, that is. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/5A5cdv.jpg Not bad for a first timer: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/NDDGNI.jpg I was pretty convinced I would have to try at least 3 or 4 times to get the right shape, but got it on the first try. (My trick was marking the distance on the tubing and then lining that mark with the 45 degree indicator on the bender. Worked pretty good for me) |
The valve cover would have to come out for the next step...
Rather than welding the tubing to the valve cover, I had decided to use grommets. I mean, PVC valve has a grommet, and the car does not catch fire, right? Also, using grommets meant removing the valve cover would not be a pain in the ass. So I drilled the valve cover and promptly forgot to take a picture. img just picture GC drilling the valve cover while holding his breath /img The grommet is tight. Like Hustler joke tight: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/2Qz8Jo.jpg |
This is the layout - the tubing will have to be shortened, but I will not cut anything till the very last minute...
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/KQ0g2u.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/OH4Wbm.jpg They will be cut riiight about here or so: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/WYVudh.jpg |
Also, I will be using the VC bolt holes to support the tubing:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/waJSID.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/uEsYmt.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/bMmjcV.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/mvNuIo.jpg There will be a total of 5 braces on the tubing, meaning, I will us every bolt hole I can. 3 on the long hotside, and 2 on the shorter PCV side... The braces will be welded on the tubing. Everything will be powdercoated in textured black like the Valve Cover. |
And the actual catch can / breather tank...
This is the shape that fits in that space: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/Gw6Sfj.jpg All aluminum, and just taped together till it is welded.. An upside down pic, because the damn thing will not stand up straight: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/s7I7tB.jpg |
Everything that should be done, should be overdone.
I really really enjoy watching your ingenuity play out. Like hustler watching porn level enjoy. |
I wanted to make the top removable, so I needed some "meat" to thread bolts in.
The solution was adding a layer of 30x10 mm aluminum bar on the inside, so I can drill and tap them for the said bolts: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/DEHkkj.jpg The M4 countersunk bolt is for illustration purposes. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/4FPJiC.jpg I will drill and tap both the tops and the bottoms of the 30x10 mm bars. The top side will be for the cover - obviously, and a mesh will be secured to the bottom side of the said bars to contain baffling material (basically some steel wool) Inlet ports from the engine will extend below the baffling... |
The inlet ports will have grommets, as well.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/4XEyCX.jpg Exit from the tank will be via this filter: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/4wkT2i.jpg |
Oh, I went ahead and got myself a nifty height adjustable stool to use while I do tedious stuff on the bench.
My back feels much better. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/eGkfcR.jpg (I also have pretty comfortable office chair by the table where I keep my laptop) AND THE AC WORKS LIKE A CHARM! It's really cool to work in a cool garage... |
I can almost hear you asking how I am planning on draining this breather tank...
There will be a sight glass on the side (not pictured - yet). And, I will incorporate a thin (like 6 mm OD) aluminum tube into the breather tank, which will extend all the way to the bottom... The M6 threaded rod represents that tubing in this pic - please use your imagination, because I have not yet sourced that tubing... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/dqKORi.jpg Said tubing will be capped during normal use. I will thread the inside and use a bolt to plug it. And, the intake manifold has oodles of vacuum when the engine is idling, right? All I have to do is remove a vacuum line from the IM, attach this fluid collector thingie (one side to the said tubing and the other to the vac port), and idle the engine for a bit... No mess, no problem. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/KrPnck.jpg |
I will finish the braces tomorrow and then take everything to get them welded.
Hoping to get all the powdercoating on the same outing, too. To be continued. (I am breaking a personal tradition by starting a thread before finishing a project) |
Originally Posted by ridethecliche
(Post 1539003)
Everything that should be done, should be overdone.
I really really enjoy watching your ingenuity play out. Like hustler watching porn level enjoy. Thanks, and I really really enjoy pushing my limits when I am doing something on this car... |
:likecat:
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re: drainage.
With the vaccuum and collector idea you're essentially making a second, smaller, catch can/tank, but without baffles so it will possibly just suck oil vapours into the engine (granted only for the short time you're emptying) Would it be simpler to just add a drainage line (with an inline tap/valve) from the bottom of the can leading to some kind of convenient area you can collect the liquid for disposal? (if you've got room?) That may be even simpler than the siphon tube idea, instead of unplugging and moving vac lines just hold a cup under the drain tube and open the valve every few weeks (or however often) |
9/16 should be fine, especially with smooth bends. Are you opening up the internal passages in the valve cover?
The vacuum extraction drain is more complex than most of us would choose but will work. A simple gravity drain hose being occasionally emptied into a cup would likely suffice. |
Looks great man. I will also add, that I opted for a simple, manual drain valve. I just open it once a week and say ewwww.
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Are you relying on the grommets at each end to account for engine movement?
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1539027)
Are you relying on the grommets at each end to account for engine movement?
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About the drainage...
I came up with the vacuum idea because there is no room under or below the breather tank for a petcock or for holding a cup under the drain. Hence the approach to empty it from the top, using readily available engine vacuum. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1539034)
No, there will be a section of rubber hose (2 hoses) to connect the hard lines to the breather tank ports.
Re: vacuum, no need to concern about fumes, as I would think you would do this on cold oil. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1538997)
* It will raise fewer eyebrows come inspection time.
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Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1539036)
About the drainage...
I came up with the vacuum idea because there is no room under or below the breather tank for a petcock or for holding a cup under the drain. Hence the approach to empty it from the top, using readily available engine vacuum. a pic from my build, 4 years ago. did I steal theirs, or did they steal mine? https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f4d51678bd.png of course, this was when I was set on dumping oil into my intake. decided that was bad. |
Today's plan was getting everything done and visiting the aluminum welding shop.
I just took my sweet time instead. Welding and powdercoating will have to be on Wednesday, or Thursday even. (I really do not want to haul everything on my bike, so I will have to borrow my sister's car for a day.) But, there was progress: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/UcGtrm.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/gZuWkw.jpg Hardline "legs" are done. I also made some spacer clamps to hold things in place. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/Sjtadu.jpg All the bare aluminum will be black like the VC. I am pretty satisfied with how it looks so far. |
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I also drilled and tapped the 30x10 aluminum bars I will be lining the inside of the tank.
That took longer than I expected. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/zFlDPZ.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/vHPpDa.jpg More to come... |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1539023)
Are you opening up the internal passages in the valve cover?
I had already enlarged the "hole" between the center section and the hotside baffle. Is there more to be opened up? I guess the best thing to do would be to take a picture of the bottom side of the VC, and we can take it from there... |
Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1539052)
I feel better.
Re: vacuum, no need to concern about fumes, as I would think you would do this on cold oil. |
Yes, center to hotside orifice.
Good work. |
Progress...
Here's a trick I use to mark screw/bolt hole locations - I have used this method on a ton of things from brake caliper adapters to miscellaneous blanking plates... Get proper size screws/bolts for the job and cut the heads off.. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Irc8mn.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/kho1IC.jpg Then use the grinder wheel to sharpen the cut tips to a point. I don't have a lathe, so a cheap drill in a vise works. Then, thread the screws/bolts in their holes... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/E5Uekd.jpg A small hammer comes in very handy here... Hold the cover in place, and lightly tap on each pointy stud... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/zCXcXw.jpg All your screw holes are belong to us! |
That was my PSA for the day...
Anyway. I briefly considered drilling a bunch of holes on a piece of aluminum sheet to hold the steel wool, then I remembered I actually have some wire mesh tucked away somewhere. (Left over from my vacuform project) So I used that instead... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/N0N2oV.jpg And, this is how it will sit in the breather tank... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/0XHF2v.jpg |
Inlet tubes from the engine will extend past the oil trap, and the steel wool will be in this section.
(Not the actual steel wool I will be using, that gunky stuff is just modeling for the photo) https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/HZJ05D.jpg |
The two inlet pipes will be welded in place.
I know I was talking about using grommets for them, but they will not move around if they are welded. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/921/B6ZdEA.jpg The only thing left to do is the drain doodad I had mentioned earlier. It will be welded to the lid, and come up with it when I open it up. That's pretty much it. I just need to get it welded and smooth the edges. |
Oh, and there is the sight glass, too.
I reinforced the 2 mm aluminum wall with a piece of 3 mm thick aluminum so the 1/8 npt fittings would have some meat to bite. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/HV79PI.jpg I am not concerned about cleaning off all the sharpie markings. Media blasting before powdercoating will take care of that. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1538997)
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Cool to see the custom fab work and creativity. Where did you hide the oil cooler? A bunch of us sure know the pain of getting that “one more thing” under the hood. I put a VTA catch can about where you have your BOV but did the IC piping down and around.
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Originally Posted by IMSTuner
(Post 1539575)
Who makes that tube bender?
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Originally Posted by Turbomack
(Post 1539583)
Cool to see the custom fab work and creativity. Where did you hide the oil cooler? A bunch of us sure know the pain of getting that “one more thing” under the hood. I put a VTA catch can about where you have your BOV but did the IC piping down and around.
I do not have an oil cooler, just the factory "warmer" on the block. The hood vent does wonders even with two turbos adding heat to the oil. The highest oil temp I have seen with the current setup is 102 C, on a very hot day. As soon as I get up to speed, temps go down quite a bit. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1539599)
I really can't remember. It was a French brand.
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I just wanted to check if this scrubber configuration is correct before I button the VC up:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8909781801.jpg Top of the photo is the cold side. Please let me know, thanks. |
I may be wrong but it looks way too tight from the picture. Should be opened up and light rather than tight and dense. We're just wanting to have oil droplets make contact with the media as the vapors change directions multiple times while wandering through it. We don't want to create a restriction.
It may just be the way it photographed. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1539703)
I may be wrong but it looks way too tight from the picture. Should be opened up and light rather than tight and dense. We're just wanting to have oil droplets make contact with the media as the vapors change directions multiple times while wandering through it. We don't want to create a restriction.
It may just be the way it photographed. Lemme get on that. |
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Having finished all I could do at the garage, I packed everything and went to the welder...
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/RScDOf.jpg Once I was done there, it was time for powdercoating.... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/XlaDG7.jpg I wasn't able to take pics there (it was getting late and I was helping to save time), so there is one crappy pic of stuff going into the oven. |
I got all the intercooler pipes, intake piping, the BOV, pretty much everything painted while I was there...
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/di43gh.jpg |
Then it was time to put everything together for the last time...
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/brBFwX.jpg I applied a thin bead of black silicone before I bolted the cover down for good measure. |
The rest was all about throwing everything back in the car...
I used new grommets just to be safe. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/Mqn3lN.jpg |
All done...
Hope it performs as good as it looks. I still have a couple of unrelated things to do, so I left the car in the garage. Here's my breather tank project in final form, from every possible angle: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/sFCTbH.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/CtaScu.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/wCcRn4.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/qTiy15.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/lSp4qK.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/1BosEz.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/nJrbAF.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/MWgLLZ.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/Kho1Mf.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/LHEw5f.jpg Yes, I did cap the PCV port on the intake manifold. |
You've done a very nice job. I am looking forward to the results.
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For those that don’t read the full threads on VC mods, it should be pointed out that there are compelling reasons to use real copper scrubber pads rather the copper coated or stainless. Yes, stainless steel does rust and copper coating coming off and apart inside an expensive engine probably isn’t a good idea. I’m not picking a fight with anyone but do strongly suggest that each person do their homework. This was the only one I could find in the US that is copper - Amazon or eBay.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2d022a1bc.jpeg |
Originally Posted by Turbomack
(Post 1539756)
For those that don’t read the full threads on VC mods, it should be pointed out that there are compelling reasons to use real copper scrubber pads rather the copper coated or stainless. Yes, stainless steel does rust and copper coating coming off and apart inside an expensive engine probably isn’t a good idea. I’m not picking a fight with anyone but do strongly suggest that each person do their homework. This was the only one I could find in the US that is copper - Amazon or eBay.
However, I have been using stainless in my VC since 2012, and I have never seen rust on them. Maybe this is because my car is a DD, I don't know. |
this catch can solution is nice. so nice.
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Stainless steel doesn't usually rust when coated in oil. Cast iron doesn't either. I'm using steel wool which isn't rusting, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone else.
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The can on mine (granted, an ebay one) uses a stack of round aluminium caps with holes in them.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/02...g?v=1471895266 Like that, but the holes taper up in diameter with each layer Seems to work fine as is, but if you were making your own you'd be better to use a wider surface area, and have more than the 3 layers to trap more stuff on the way to the exit vent. And yeah, being alu and plate, no worry about rust ever. |
Originally Posted by Turbomack
(Post 1539756)
For those that don’t read the full threads on VC mods, it should be pointed out that there are compelling reasons to use real copper scrubber pads rather the copper coated or stainless. Yes, stainless steel does rust and copper coating coming off and apart inside an expensive engine probably isn’t a good idea. I’m not picking a fight with anyone but do strongly suggest that each person do their homework. This was the only one I could find in the US that is copper - Amazon or eBay.
I would totally take my chances with this ss material. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1539036)
About the drainage...
I came up with the vacuum idea because there is no room under or below the breather tank for a petcock or for holding a cup under the drain. Hence the approach to empty it from the top, using readily available engine vacuum. I have a similar packaging problem, I put a drain hose into the wheel well, just need to turn the wheel to full lock, or remove, to access. Instead of vacuum from the engine, why not use one of those syringe devices used for filling/draining gearboxes and diffs, master cylinders, etc? |
Originally Posted by Erat
(Post 1539840)
How many parts in your engine are made of steel or any other ferrous metals?
I would totally take my chances with this ss material. I thought this could turn contentious ...”can’t rust if it is coated in oil”, “been doing it that way since 1742 and never blown a motor”, etc. On one of my 1000-post reading sessions last year I came across some compelling arguments against the coated ones and the SS ones. Wish I could easily find those posts. Steam and moisture causing it to rust and flaking of the copper coating were a couple of things I remember and they weren’t challenged very well or I could have saved a lot of hassle for myself switching it out and waiting on the real copper ones to get delivered. That’s what gets confusing about all the threads...20 will say it’s the best thing since toilet paper, 20 will say it’s really dirty TP. Advanced engineering degrees drive me to understand the science behind questionable comments but the million miles of real experience in MT is invaluable and means a lot. |
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ee670d248.jpeg
if you are running a VTA (vent to atmosphere), PCV delete, it makes no sense to put anything in chamber C because there would never be a vacuum to pull any caught oil back into the head. The negative pressure (i.e. vacuum) will get it’s relief from “A” before it sucks oil out of “C”. “C” is just going to fill up and eventually puke onto the can if/when there is enough pressure to blow it through. However, a small hole or 2 drilled into the chamber cover of “C” would allow any caught oil to flow back into the head. Someone on here had plans to cut the chamber cover in “C” off by 1/4 or 1/3 at least partially for the reasons I state. Don’t think that ever got fully vetted or if it did I never found the results. |
A quick update:
I emptied the catch can for the first time today. About a liter of the chocolate milk stuff. Had quite bit of a water in it, in fact vast majority was water, because I was stupid enough to power wash the engine before draining it. Draining it with the compressed air driven vacuum bleeder was a breeze. No mess, super clean. I can safely say this was a successful project. |
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