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Old 12-01-2008, 11:16 PM   #1
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Default Head Work????

I have got some headwork prices.
Since I'm a DD on the street, the guy didn't really want to go all out.

He wanted to do a three angle valve job and port match. And leave the stock springs and valves sizes.

$250.00 for a stock rebuilt head

For and extra $250.00=$500
He would port match the intake mani, head ports match for intake and exhaust on the head, and 3 angle valve job.
He said it should add 15hp.

He said that is all he would do to it, due to head work pushing the power up the RPM range. He said you would loose some midrange if we did more.
I thought the more head work the faster the spool???

For $750.00 over the $250 stock job. =$1000.00

He would do a 5 angle valve job, bigger valves and springs, bigger combustion chambers, bigger ports for intake mani, bigger ports for the intake and exhaust on the head, and he said it wouldn't be friendly on the street, but would kill at the drag strip!

I'm pretty positive he said he was including porting the intake. But I would have to ask again.

What do ya'll think. They have been porting VW bug heads, and imports for years. They do them all.

Is this common pricing, good pricing, or HiGH!?

Thanks
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:27 PM   #2
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After watching a friend port a rotary and SBrian2's head, it is a very labor intensive operation and you really want a skilled person doing (more money per hour). The amount quoted to you seems reasonable if thy were putting in new valves and springs (probably $300-500 there alone depending on suppliers).
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:27 PM   #3
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This will get you started
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t22074/
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:30 PM   #4
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Everything "bigger" he mentions won't do ****. Sounds like they don't know what they're doing to me.

Unshrouding the valves will help a good bit if done properly. Blending the bowls will help a lot. Blending the throat will help some. The rest won't do ****. Looks like your guy left out the important 80%.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:42 PM   #5
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BOOST!

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Old 12-01-2008, 11:44 PM   #6
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^^^You like posting that picture don't you?
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Everything "bigger" he mentions won't do ****. Sounds like they don't know what they're doing to me.

Unshrouding the valves will help a good bit if done properly. Blending the bowls will help a lot. Blending the throat will help some. The rest won't do ****. Looks like your guy left out the important 80%.
Actually he was including that. I just couldn't remember the terminology he used.

Anyway, I have a spare motor I am planning on building overtime. I also have a 96 1.8L with 100,000 miles on it. I thought about putting it in, but with all the problems hustler had, I may just stick with the 1.6L. And I would have to get another manifold.

With the internals built, I would try to push the full 300hp the turbo is rated at.

LOL, I had forgot about that thread. LOL
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:48 PM   #8
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I'll play. My 99' head. Only pics of headwork I got. Don't show **** really. Ports are stock, SS radius smoothed, throat worked. Undercut and polished stock valves. That's all you can see from the pic.
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^^^ Look right here at this valve. See how smoothly the port "flows" to the seat? That's porting the throat. Can't see much without taking the valve out and looking into it though.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddcod View Post
Actually he was including that. I just couldn't remember the terminology he used.

Anyway, I have a spare motor I am planning on building overtime. I also have a 96 1.8L with 100,000 miles on it. I thought about putting it in, but with all the problems hustler had, I may just stick with the 1.6L. And I would have to get another manifold.

With the internals built, I would try to push the full 300hp the turbo is rated at.

LOL, I had forgot about that thread. LOL
No. If he blends the bowls, then he won't be cutting any angles in the seat. And if he knew to blend the bowls and unshroud the valves, he wouldn't be putting bigger valves. Or bigger ports. How does he know what needs improving if he hasn't looked at the head? Or is this not his first 1.6 miata head. Either way, I bet he doesn't know what he's doing.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:55 PM   #10
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boost?

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Old 12-02-2008, 12:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
No. If he blends the bowls, then he won't be cutting any angles in the seat. And if he knew to blend the bowls and unshroud the valves, he wouldn't be putting bigger valves. Or bigger ports. How does he know what needs improving if he hasn't looked at the head? Or is this not his first 1.6 miata head. Either way, I bet he doesn't know what he's doing.
I remember unshrouding the valves. I dont know about the rest.
They are reputable. You would have to talk to him. But I didn't think the price was bad.
But he recommended for street to really just leave it alone. With some mild work.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:06 AM   #12
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Once I get forged internals in, I wounder how much power I can get out of the motor with the stock 1.6L head?
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:26 AM   #13
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:51 AM   #14
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I thought multi angle valve jobs were more of an n/a thing. Would boost react well to a 3 or 5 angle job?

I did some work on my head, but have yet to even get to drive it because of a damn head gasket issue. I didnt change the shape or size of the port, but did polish and smooth the short radius, along with smoothed out the cc and removed the shelf beside each valve seat to smooth up the flow into and from the cc. Im for sure no pro, but it turned out ok for a job done with a dremel and sanding wheels. I need to invest in come good air tools if I do any more work in the future.

Mostly finished:
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Here is my favorite part of the work, removing that ungodly ridge beneath each seat(mind you, the porting isnt done yet in this picture:
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Here is the early intake "blending" and casting junk removal:
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Again, not pretty, and I dont even know if it helped, but whats one is done. More excuse for the 99-00 head later.

Here is a wonderful before:
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Whatever i did has to be better than that.
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:05 AM   #15
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this is my before:



total investment of $40 to reimburse Neogenesis2004 for carbide bits, blow jobs for his time and effort and $40 to mill the head....I didn't bother with a valve job.




Quote:
great shot, wish I took something like this as well. Really shows the difference after you get rid of that ridge.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddcod View Post
Once I get forged internals in, I wounder how much power I can get out of the motor with the stock 1.6L head?
I have a built 1.6 bottom with a stock head. 247 rwhp @ 17 lbs. The setup will just not flow enough. Bell is building me an intake manifold with a 70mm TB, which I will dyno and hopefully see better results. Here is the thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t26984/

If you take a look, my chart (see sig for build) is overlapped with Brains (t3S60 mild headwork).

I have a spare head, which I am slowly piecing together. I think the OS valves and springs may be overkill, but with porting, blending, cams you can see 300 calmly.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:48 AM   #17
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I still have a spare 1.6 head to practice some porting and general cleaning up (mainly casting ridges/leftovers). Got valve lapping compound and various Dremel bits. Any definite no-no's or things I definately SHOULD do?
If this head turns out ok it will be tested on a (n/a) car, if not, I only wasted €50 on this head for some practicing
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Any definite no-no's or things I definately SHOULD do?

don't **** up the seats.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:26 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
I still have a spare 1.6 head to practice some porting and general cleaning up (mainly casting ridges/leftovers). Got valve lapping compound and various Dremel bits. Any definite no-no's or things I definately SHOULD do?
If this head turns out ok it will be tested on a (n/a) car, if not, I only wasted 50 on this head for some practicing
First, I highly recommend you get a book or two on cylinder head modifications and read up. You'll learn a lot.

Second, plan on getting the head rebuilt after porting. If you nick a seat, you have to anyways. And it would be best to have the valves ground and the seats cut slightly bigger for a turbo motor. Increases heat transfer out of the valve for greater reliability, less prone to knock, etc.
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:14 AM   #20
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I already have a quite in-depth book about engine building/headwork etc. Was just looking for B6/BP head specific tips. If I mess this one up it's no problem, if it's ok it will be tested for ***** and giggles. The head will be going onto a n/a B6 shortblock, so atm I don't see the need for the seats to be cut bigger

Pat: you got pics of the camgear markings for the exhintake swap? (sometimes I need to hand-held and spoon-fed )
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