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-   -   how come mazda motors dont make "good" power? (https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/how-come-mazda-motors-dont-make-good-power-51731/)

JayL 09-21-2010 12:28 PM

Any love for the F22B1, what's my daily driver capable of?

Full_Tilt_Boogie 09-21-2010 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by JayL (Post 632722)
Any love for the F22B1, what's my daily driver capable of?

Lots. Bisimotos drag car has an insanely build F22 that makes 400hp NA! :jerkit:

Stock it has a very strong bottom end. You could easily make a reliably 300 with a well sized turbo.
Youd want to find an H22 tranny, since it has good gearing and an LSD. Its a direct swap.

18psi 09-21-2010 12:54 PM

HAHA watch Jay build a 900whp "daily driver" now:D

jasonb 09-21-2010 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 632710)
Not to mention the fact that the stock honda ECU is very capable. People have made 600hp on factory ECUs with a tune that was made on free software.

fwiw this is the same comment i heard from nissan community - standard practice is to buy some bolt-ons and get an ecu tune. this may be a factor in the size of the honda vs mazda turbo markets, actually. low barrier to entry (and a steady stream of broken parts on craigslist :giggle:)

jasonb 09-21-2010 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by turotufas (Post 632523)
Thanks!

sorry... yeah, i know, this datapoint is interesting to what, like 5 of us in US?
somebody should make a swap kit....

SolarYellow510 09-22-2010 10:46 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 631863)
s300 is so nice and easy to use, but the price of s chipped ECU is one of the main reasons I love hondas so much. You basically have a standalone ECU from the factory, all it requires is soldering in a ZIF socket and a couple resistors.
Plus you can actually make a higher resolution tune with CROME/neptune/ectune than you can with hondata (although its totally unnecessary)

This.

You can tune the stock ECU using freeware if you have an Evo, Nissan, Honda, Chevy, Ford... If you have a Miata, you're either living with band-aid tuning or at least buying MS and building or buying a boomslang. I've been OCDing on my EMS and boomslang for waaay too long, but if it was as easy as tuning the stock ECU is on those other cars, it would all have been done a long time ago.

18psi 09-22-2010 10:51 PM

I'm glad you edited that post.

Because

I could NOT POSSIBLY DISAGREE WITH YOU MORE about the last part.

Seriously. The ammount of bullshit in that last part absolutely blew me away. Couldn't be further from the truth

SolarYellow510 09-23-2010 09:50 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 633411)
I'm glad you edited that post.

Because

I could NOT POSSIBLY DISAGREE WITH YOU MORE about the last part.

Yeah, I realized as I read it that it needed to be said offline over beers, if it was said at all.

18psi 09-23-2010 09:57 PM

No worries:)
And I agree:D

jasonb 09-30-2010 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by jasonb (Post 632761)
somebody should make a swap kit....

wot!? they did https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....73&postcount=1

EDIT: in case y'all don't have the nemesis link handy, i found it in my bookmarks: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/22/video-nemesiiiiis/

Lee04vr 10-03-2010 02:13 PM

Regardless of how much power a honda B-series can make there're FWD sound like crap and I just don't like them. For every fast honda civic there's 60 shity looking body kit falling off loud slow pos honda's rollin around nut swing'in on the one fast honda. If I ever own a Honda it will be a 600RR or 1000RR wanna talk about good heads.

After that little rant an SR20DET, 13B, or maybe a VG30DETT swaped miata would be cool, now before you all get exited I know the SR20 has been done and so has the 13b rotary. The Nissan VG30DETT from the bloated 90 up 300zx would be pretty cool in a light weight sports car seeing as I'm sitting in my boxer's on the couch I'm not even suggesting it's even possible but 3.0L V-6 already turbo motor.

I have noticed the miata community loves to hate on it's self the BP's not a bad motor not a high rpm screamer but it does take to boost well, and the 1.8 is a really good fit to the miata's intended purpose light weight roadster with a good suspension based off the traditional British style. Really you don't start break bending rod's till your more than double stock flywheel horse power.

I wish the BP was like the SBC in my truck where I open a JEG'S catalog look a built alum cyl head for 800$ or forged short block for under 2k, but remember GM produced this motor from 55' till around the late 90's. the bottom line with horse power and the BP is if you want it you gotta spend some money no need to hate it will never be as cheap to build as SBC or honda but I'd rather have a mazda than a Honda.

dustinb 10-03-2010 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by Lee04vr (Post 638046)
Regardless of how much power a honda B-series can make there're FWD sound like crap and I just don't like them. For every fast honda civic there's 60 shity looking body kit falling off loud slow pos honda's rollin around nut swing'in on the one fast honda. If I ever own a it will be a 600RR or 1000RR wanna talk about good heads.

After that little rant an SR20DET, 13B, or maybe a VG30DETT swaped miata would be cool, now before you all get exited I know the SR20 has been done and so has the 13b rotary. The Nissan VG30DETT from the bloated 90 up 300zx would be pretty cool in a light weight sports car seeing as I'm sitting in my boxer's on the couch I'm not even suggesting it's even possible but 3.0L V-6 already turbo motor.

I have noticed the miata community loves to hate on it's self the BP's not a bad motor not a high rpm screamer but it does take to boost well, and the 1.8 is a really good fit to the miata's intended purpose light weight roadster with a good suspension based off the traditional British style. Really you don't start break bending rod's till your more than double stock flywheel horse power.

I wish the BP was like the SBC in my truck where I open a JEG'S catalog look a built alum cyl head for 800$ or forged short block for under 2k, but remember GM produced this motor from 55' till around the late 90's. the bottom line with horse power and the BP is if you want it you gotta spend some money no need to hate it will never be as cheap to build as SBC or honda but I'd rather have a mazda than a Honda.

I can throw around engine numbers too! A KAD24DE would be awesome because it's 4 cylinder and 2.4 litre. Or maybe even a Datsun Z22 motor from a truck, that would be great too. Now I'm sitting at my chair and not saying it is possible at all.

Seriously though, why would you even think of putting a VG from a 300zx in? It's not reliable, is a pain to work on, and doesn't make very good power.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 10-03-2010 03:08 PM


Originally Posted by Lee04vr (Post 638046)
Regardless of how much power a honda B-series can make there're FWD sound like crap and I just don't like them. For every fast honda civic there's 60 shity looking body kit falling off loud slow pos honda's rollin around nut swing'in on the one fast honda. If I ever own a it will be a 600RR or 1000RR wanna talk about good heads.

After that little rant an SR20DET, 13B, or maybe a VG30DETT swaped miata would be cool, now before you all get exited I know the SR20 has been done and so has the 13b rotary. The Nissan VG30DETT from the bloated 90 up 300zx would be pretty cool in a light weight sports car seeing as I'm sitting in my boxer's on the couch I'm not even suggesting it's even possible but 3.0L V-6 already turbo motor.

I have noticed the miata community loves to hate on it's self the BP's not a bad motor not a high rpm screamer but it does take to boost well, and the 1.8 is a really good fit to the miata's intended purpose light weight roadster with a good suspension based off the traditional British style. Really you don't start break bending rod's till your more than double stock flywheel horse power.

I wish the BP was like the SBC in my truck where I open a JEG'S catalog look a built alum cyl head for 800$ or forged short block for under 2k, but remember GM produced this motor from 55' till around the late 90's. the bottom line with horse power and the BP is if you want it you gotta spend some money no need to hate it will never be as cheap to build as SBC or honda but I'd rather have a mazda than a Honda.

Cool story bro.

Lee04vr 10-03-2010 05:08 PM

Yeah the VG30DETT was a shot in the dark I have owned and worked on a 87' 300zx shoc non-turbo wana talk about slow and a pain to work on.

on a side note if you don't like the BP there's alot of possibilities on swaps I'll keep my BP for now.

dustinb 10-03-2010 06:26 PM


Originally Posted by Lee04vr (Post 638127)
Yeah the VG30DETT was a shot in the dark I have owned and worked on a 87' 300zx shoc non-turbo wana talk about slow and a pain to work on.

on a side note if you don't like the BP there's alot of possibilities on swaps I'll keep my BP for now.

I love my BP. 200+ hp is enough for this car.

BoostedTrixx 10-04-2010 08:16 AM

I've never drove/rode in a track prepped Honda of any sort, whether it be forced induction or NA. The one thing I have noticed in the TONS of "street" Hondas I have drove is that, they are so damn boring to drive? Even with tons of power that they make, they just feel out of place and unwilling. Driving a turbo Miata I feel actually somewhat dared to push the car? As with a pretty powerful turbo Honda the only thing I think about is, how shitty do these coilovers ride? Or how "JDM" is this mod or this supposed to be to the fanboys? They have no personality, and after 1 WOT pull, I am once left bored again.

SolarYellow510 10-06-2010 01:44 AM

I drove a lot of Integras back in the day. Even the Type R always felt uninspiring behind the wheel, but you just had to respect how capable they were.

The last one I drove was an RSX with a really torquey turbo setup, making maybe 300 at the wheels, on Yoko A032Rs (tells you how long ago this was). Thing revved to 9k. Frickin' brilliant. Luvved it. Still FWD.

I would totally be putting a K series in a 2nd-gen MR2 if it fit, but the drivetrain is longer than the MR2's frame rails are wide.

The RSX community is a good source of affordable AEM EMS boxes, slightly used.

kotomile 10-06-2010 02:08 AM

FWD Hondas can be fun to drive if they're set up right. Just as with Miatas, if the owner goes for the slammage/hellaflush look it's going to lose a lot of the fun-to-drive factor.

My favorite Honda I drove was a SM EG hatch I co-drove at an autox in Gainesville. B18C1 swap, 500# springs at all corners, big rear bar, good seat and harness, and Hoosiers. That was a blast to drive around course, just enough off-throttle oversteer to help the car rotate and plenty of power for that course, which is basically a miniature road course.

spoolin2bars 10-06-2010 06:33 PM


Originally Posted by SolarYellow510 (Post 639366)
I drove a lot of Integras back in the day. Even the Type R always felt uninspiring behind the wheel, but you just had to respect how capable they were.

The last one I drove was an RSX with a really torquey turbo setup, making maybe 300 at the wheels, on Yoko A032Rs (tells you how long ago this was). Thing revved to 9k. Frickin' brilliant. Luvved it. Still FWD.

I would totally be putting a K series in a 2nd-gen MR2 if it fit, but the drivetrain is longer than the MR2's frame rails are wide.

The RSX community is a good source of affordable AEM EMS boxes, slightly used.

what you need to do is put a k-series in a mr-s. they're super light, mid engine, and with a k20 they are monsters on a track. i'm sure there's some on youtube.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 10-06-2010 07:46 PM


Originally Posted by spoolin2bars (Post 639761)
what you need to do is put a k-series in a mr-s. they're super light, mid engine, and with a k20 they are monsters on a track. i'm sure there's some on youtube.

Id rather have a miata with an F20C


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