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Old 08-04-2012, 07:05 PM   #1
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Default How to resolve a lean issue?

I have so much I don't know where to start from first I'll start off by saying sorry that this is my first post I got referred here from clubroadster because they told me I would get better help on here.


I bought a 2001 Miata about a week ago and when I got it back home I noticed that at 11psi my wideband was marking 12.4 on WOT so I turned the boost down to 8psi which is stock boost from the kit. Still runs 12.4 on the wideband I tried checking for exhaust leaks and there was none. Then I got a little bit of blow by that came from a breather on the valve cover so I pulled off the plugs and did a compression check and the plugs seemed kinda melted looking well at least only cyl # 1 my compression came out to be 160, 175, 175,180

At this point what should I do?

This is what i've got AVO turbo kit, TurboLink management, Aem wideband and Aem boost guage

Please help :/

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:00 PM   #2
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What is controlling your fueling? Turbolink only does ignition unless aux injectors have been plugged in. I would turn the boost as far down as you can.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:14 PM   #3
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Okay so I just looked at it and I got these pictures I took a picture of the turbolink and the hand held unit I also took a picture of something that had been tempered with the fuel lines and come to find out there is this 5th injector so I traced the wiring back for it and it comes threw the firewall by the turbolink but there two wires for the injector are just snipped i'm guessing this could be my issue. Here are the pics below




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Old 08-04-2012, 10:19 PM   #4
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I messed with it a little bit more and turns out that the 5th injector comes into the turbolink I just don't know what those two wires (red and Brown with white) go to?
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:07 PM   #5
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Wow, holy potential fuel leak spots.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:54 AM   #6
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Dude ...

a) Curly's right. Your fuel system has been hacked into by someone who obviously is careful and meticulous, with an eye for doing things right - not.

b) you should run something better than what you have (even if it was working). Your profile does not indicate your location so I have no idea what your emissions requirements are so a standalone may be out. But a 5th injector bandaid is just bad - you should run bigger injectors. Probably 550's at least for 12psi of boost. So some sort of piggyback that can control both fuel and timing, plus injectors, should be in the future. In the meantime turn your boost down as low as you can.

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Old 08-05-2012, 01:46 AM   #7
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Holy ----:
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:55 AM   #8
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With that retardation going on with the fuel lines, I would seriously be afraid to drive the car around altogether
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:29 AM   #9
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I agree with mobius. I'd try and even stay out of boost if that meant correct afr's. you definitely need something to manage the fuel. the rx7 550's or 460's are easy enough to come by and are reasonably priced. both should be sufficient for a non built motor. you have some cleaning and changing to do if you'd like a reliable car. that thing is a time bomb as is.

on another note. is it built ... you have any paperwork with this? sure would be nice to know the history. one could only hope. 2001 stock pistons are 10:1 compression. they are going to be much more prone to det on a bad tune. food for thought.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
I agree with mobius. I'd try and even stay out of boost if that meant correct afr's. you definitely need something to manage the fuel. the rx7 550's or 460's are easy enough to come by and are reasonably priced. both should be sufficient for a non built motor. you have some cleaning and changing to do if you'd like a reliable car. that thing is a time bomb as is.

on another note. is it built ... you have any paperwork with this? sure would be nice to know the history. one could only hope. 2001 stock pistons are 10:1 compression. they are going to be much more prone to det on a bad tune. food for thought.
If I was to switch out injectors to 550's or 460's I would cancel the 5th injector? and can I still be able to run the turbolink or do I have to get a different management?
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:49 PM   #11
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The avo kit ran a 5th injector and was a horrific design at best. I had one on my 1.6 and ditched that thing quick.

The turbolink will only control the 5th injector, it isn't a full feature ECU. You will have to go with another ECU module and ditch the 5th injector completely. I built a small blockoff plate and screwed it down in place of the 5th injector.

-Greer
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:56 PM   #12
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yes you can run those injectors. It will not fix your problem though. the turbolink doesn't control your main injectors (someone correct me if i'm wrong). The turbolink manages an aux injector in your case once x kpa is met during intake it then ads fuel accordingly.

you could try messing with your aux injectors fuel output but nobody else on here has mentioned that because anyone who has been around the block knows it's not the RIGHT way to do things. i.e. if you read around you'll see that having an extra injector may help but due to flow it's possible for det to still occur in one cylinder because the added fuel is not distributed evenly. there are obviously plenty of options for ecu's but most of us are rockin MS.

Steps to success:

1) Turn down boost.
2) Read tons of stuff in the ecu section.
3) purchase ecu after deciding what one is best for you.
4) clean up old crummy setup
5) install new & tune. get used to the tuning
6) turn up boost if you want, retune

note: your compression ratio is high so make sure you learn to tune before you start adding boost. you have little room for error and tunes should be pretty conservative.

if you decide to go higher then 8psi then you'll need new injectors but that would be my upgrade path. I would do a coolant reroute as well somewhere in there.

Plenty of people use band aids and they may work for a while but they eventually cause issues. On my first motor i did band aids and eventually detonation killed it.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
yes you can run those injectors. It will not fix your problem though. the turbolink doesn't control your main injectors (someone correct me if i'm wrong). The turbolink manages an aux injector in your case once x kpa is met during intake it then ads fuel accordingly.

you could try messing with your aux injectors fuel output but nobody else on here has mentioned that because anyone who has been around the block knows it's not the RIGHT way to do things. i.e. if you read around you'll see that having an extra injector may help but due to flow it's possible for det to still occur in one cylinder because the added fuel is not distributed evenly. there are obviously plenty of options for ecu's but most of us are rockin MS.

Steps to success:

1) Turn down boost.
2) Read tons of stuff in the ecu section.
3) purchase ecu after deciding what one is best for you.
4) clean up old crummy setup
5) install new & tune. get used to the tuning
6) turn up boost if you want, retune

note: your compression ratio is high so make sure you learn to tune before you start adding boost. you have little room for error and tunes should be pretty conservative.

if you decide to go higher then 8psi then you'll need new injectors but that would be my upgrade path. I would do a coolant reroute as well somewhere in there.

Plenty of people use band aids and they may work for a while but they eventually cause issues. On my first motor i did band aids and eventually detonation killed it.

Okay well is there a specific choice of ecu's to use since I have a 01 with the vvt? And right now I unplugged the boost controller so it's set to 8psi which is what the kit does on stock boost. If I add a bigger fuel pump for now and try sending more fuel to the 5th injector to get by for now until I have more money to upgrade injectors and the management would that work out for just around a month? And how could I send more fuel to the 5th injector? Thanks for the help I really appreciate it!
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:28 AM   #14
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i'm sure driving your car is fine. i'd recommend staying out of wot though. just be smart patient and rational. The miata community has excellent megasquirt support so i'd lean towards that. if you go that route you need to do a lot of reading. megasquirt2+ does work with vvt.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:49 AM   #15
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Or a more capable piggyback like an AEM FIC or an Xede will let you control larger injectors.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:17 AM   #16
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Alright well this morning I was going to swap the fuel pump to try that out, and when I lifted the seat to get to the back part of the car I found the turbolink manuals and started to skim threw them and on one the categories on the controller it says Master fuel and in the manual it said to adjust that section if you air/fuel mixture wasn't right so it was set 11 and the max setting was 31 so I set all the way on 31 to check the difference and on WOT it did 10.0 on the wideband so I tuned it down from there and I have it set at 22 with the air/fuel ratio at 10.9-11.1 so I'm guessing it's better than before so no I can at least drive the car until I can get a hold of a new management and injectors and tune. Does this sound right to you guys?
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:21 AM   #17
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And also now that the air/fuel mixture is fixed my low compression of cyl #1 at 160 on the throttle open and the rest being at 175psi I clearly got detonation from being lean so I was starting to get a little bit of blow by threw my breather on the valve cover is this going to continue to get worse or is there something I could do to temporarily fix this? Could it be the rings on cyl #1 or the piston it self?
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:18 PM   #18
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I still wouldn't push that setup much. The 5th injector will spray wide open as you increase fuel load. The control isn't fine enough to fire on demand. IIRC, the guys that ran dual injectors in the early 99 turbo kits experienced fuel puddling in the intake manifold and uneven fueling. It will be worse with a single injector. Be gentle until you get a better solution. There is a reason AVO isn't sold much (at all?) in the US anymore. PBC installed the first US kit on my car back in 2000 (prior to Racing Beat selling their kits) and it was rough. Look to a different solution and stay out of boost if possible until you do. Your motor is at risk as you've noted.

-Greer
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g_reichow View Post
I still wouldn't push that setup much. The 5th injector will spray wide open as you increase fuel load. The control isn't fine enough to fire on demand. IIRC, the guys that ran dual injectors in the early 99 turbo kits experienced fuel puddling in the intake manifold and uneven fueling. It will be worse with a single injector. Be gentle until you get a better solution. There is a reason AVO isn't sold much (at all?) in the US anymore. PBC installed the first US kit on my car back in 2000 (prior to Racing Beat selling their kits) and it was rough. Look to a different solution and stay out of boost if possible until you do. Your motor is at risk as you've noted.

-Greer


Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
you could try messing with your aux injectors fuel output but nobody else on here has mentioned that because anyone who has been around the block knows it's not the RIGHT way to do things. i.e. if you read around you'll see that having an extra injector may help but due to flow it's possible for det to still occur in one cylinder because the added fuel is not distributed evenly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
i'm sure driving your car is fine. i'd recommend staying out of wot though. just be smart patient and rational.
Pistons are rings are one in the same until you can visibly exam them. so if you have blowby yes it will be there until you eventually one day replace or rebuild your bottom end.

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