How warm before High RPM, Boost? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-2014, 02:33 AM   #21
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,877
Total Cats: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Definitely most ideal to watch oil temps
However, for those of us with street cars, we gotta settle for water temp gauge :(
Adding an oil temp gauge isn't all that hard. Alternately, if you have a real oil pressure gauge you can tell when the oil temp has come up because the pressure drops at idle.

As for the factory oil warmer -- I've had two of the stupid teeny coolant lines fail on me, one of them dumping all my coolant out at Laguna a few years ago, costing me a track day and a head gasket. They're gone, and good riddance.

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 10:07 AM   #22
Elite Member
iTrader: (21)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,684
Total Cats: 555
Default

I have had lots of cars over the years. I have never warmed them up; only made sure oil pressure was up to normal. After that, I flog them like I stole them.

In all this time, I have never worn out an engine before corrosion destroyed the rest of the vehicle. No sense in having a pristine 100k+ mileage motor in a rusted out hulk. Maybe if I lived somewhere that salt & snow wasn't a factor (or it was an expensive exotic) I might treat them better. But I've never had an internal engine failure due to wear, so I'll keep on beating on them.
rleete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 10:50 AM   #23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 192
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rleete View Post
I have had lots of cars over the years. I have never warmed them up; only made sure oil pressure was up to normal. After that, I flog them like I stole them.

In all this time, I have never worn out an engine before corrosion destroyed the rest of the vehicle. No sense in having a pristine 100k+ mileage motor in a rusted out hulk. Maybe if I lived somewhere that salt & snow wasn't a factor (or it was an expensive exotic) I might treat them better. But I've never had an internal engine failure due to wear, so I'll keep on beating on them.
But you live in Rochester, where they rust out cars in 3 years. Come down south were my 25 year old car doesn't even have a lick of rust.

I drive it gingerly until the water temp comes up and add a minute or two before I flog my street cars. Autocross cars I try and do the same, but it's not as easy to do. Full power or RPM while cold is a good way to screw up the pistons.

Happens all the time in the watercooled 2 stroke world. Cold engine, full throttle, piston warms up and expands, cylinder still cold, piston literally sticks in the bore. Complete lockup.
tpwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 11:28 AM   #24
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,311
Total Cats: 1,335
Default

Deviate has a 4000rpm rev limiter set for something like 140 clt. I'm pretty good about short shifting the first few minutes on my own but every now and then it catches me. Even then, I won't use WOT or high revs until the tstat is fully open to guarantee I have some OT. Deviate has no gauges beyond OEM. The race cars all have OT gauges.

Last edited by emilio700; 12-11-2014 at 03:07 PM.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 01:32 PM   #25
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 104
Total Cats: 1
Default

On a Mazdaspeed Miata the Check Engine Light will come on if you flog it before it gets up to operating temperature.
MSMjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 01:58 PM   #26
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

I believe the new Focus ST has a low temp indicator as well.

The vast majority of modern ECUs on boosted vehicles also pull timing or dump boost until some thermal setpoint, usually CLT (probably because CLT sensor is already in place.) Hell, the econobox Nissan rental car I had the last time I was in AZ pulled timing until the low temp light went off and it was a tiny NA engine.

Anyone know what this is?


Its a thermal vacuum switch. Its screwed into a water jacket on the intake manifold of my 390FE powered 1974 Ford F250. When the coolant is cold, its job is to block off the vacuum signal that goes to the vacuum advance diaphragm in the distributor thus prevent any timing advance beyond the static base timing. Once the coolant in the block reaches about 140 it opens up and allows the timing to advance based on manifold vacuum. (Yes, part of this is for emissions reasons but these devices date back much much further than emissions compliance.)

As you can see, this is absolutely nothing new. I'm happy to follow the trend.
Attached Thumbnails
How warm before High RPM, Boost?-98435d1379824424-3vze-thermal-vacuum-valve-need-help-tvv.jpg  
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 02:14 PM   #27
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

Correcto-mundo. On dbw cars the throttle mapping acommodates temps, and you basically "can't" drive the car hard when its cold even if you tried.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 08:08 PM   #28
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 715
Total Cats: 53
Default

If you don't heat the oil up and rev it, the bearings will not last long. It's not so much the boost than the RPM that matters. At the race track, you go out on a cold engine and rev it, you most likely are coming back on a tow truck. Drag strip is no different. Now for drag strip, some of those guys run on special lubes (no oil sometimes) so can't really follow that.
bcrx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 09:09 PM   #29
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 2,050
Total Cats: 433
Default

I have a 50C rule for a cold engine.
The oil has to get up to 50C (120F) before I rev or boost it.
Luckily, I have almost a whole mile of downhill narrow streets before I get to the main road. I just start and roll down the streets at idle, the engine warms up by the time I get to the first light.
Then I flog it.
Godless Commie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 02:04 PM   #30
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,843
Total Cats: 271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSMjohn View Post
On a Mazdaspeed Miata the Check Engine Light will come on if you flog it before it gets up to operating temperature.
Would you happen to know the CEL code that comes on?
Girz0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 06:04 PM   #31
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,701
Total Cats: 268
Default

I implemented a "trick" today. I set Decel Fuel Cut to start at 175 CLT temp. So, without a real gauge, or any lights, I can at least know when the CLT is at that temp by lifting the throttle. If the AFR goes full peg, indicating Fuel Cut, then I know the CLT is at that temp. More definitive than the OEM temp gauge.
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 10:13 PM   #32
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
I believe the new Focus ST has a low temp indicator as well.

The vast majority of modern ECUs on boosted vehicles also pull timing or dump boost until some thermal setpoint, usually CLT (probably because CLT sensor is already in place.) Hell, the econobox Nissan rental car I had the last time I was in AZ pulled timing until the low temp light went off and it was a tiny NA engine.

Anyone know what this is?


Its a thermal vacuum switch. Its screwed into a water jacket on the intake manifold of my 390FE powered 1974 Ford F250. When the coolant is cold, its job is to block off the vacuum signal that goes to the vacuum advance diaphragm in the distributor thus prevent any timing advance beyond the static base timing. Once the coolant in the block reaches about 140 it opens up and allows the timing to advance based on manifold vacuum. (Yes, part of this is for emissions reasons but these devices date back much much further than emissions compliance.)

As you can see, this is absolutely nothing new. I'm happy to follow the trend.
#Threaddrift

Duuudee! Pics of your dentside. Nowww. I've got a 72 F100 with a 360FE.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 01:12 PM   #33
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

What I did when I drove mine everyday, I just knew that say, it's 90*F outside when I crank for the day, it takes 5 min of my normal driving to get up to temp (coolant), if it's 30*F, make that 8 minutes. I would assume that with the factory oil wamer/cooler, oil temp probably lagged coolant by a little as the engine is warming up. I would generally give the car about 1-2 minutes of idling, then 2-3 minutes of normal driving before finding the rev limiter. Can't really say this "worked", I broke a few engines during this time, but I can say that all of them were bent rods, cracked piston, dead rings. None showed any meaningful bearing wear.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2015, 09:01 PM   #34
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,178
Total Cats: 266
Default

Under non-turbo-in-boost conditions most of the oil temp in a BP is from friction. I have both coolant and oil temp (measured at the filter, the hotter location) gauges in my car. During warmup, oil temp lags coolant temp by about 50F. When it's <40F ambient, oil might lag by 60F during warmup. But regardless of ambient temp, within 3 miles of freeway driving the oil is warmed up. At 3k rpm, it only takes about 90 seconds of running after the stock temp gauge reads normal for the oil to be fully warmed up.
Mobius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 01:53 PM   #35
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,701
Total Cats: 268
Default

Mobius,

Sounds like my 175* H2O is a good goal, then. Oil should be close or over 120* at that point. Thanks for the feedback.
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 Yesterday 10:04 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
Are my coils failing? viriiguy General Miata Chat 5 09-28-2015 08:39 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 AM.