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Old 06-25-2010, 12:16 PM   #1
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Default KL-DE powered sand-rail

Well I'm at it again with another neck-deep project. I, impulsively, bought a sand-rail on a Michigan trip. It looked like an RC car and the kid in me couldn't say no. It -had- a Ford EXP (Escort) front wheel drive drivetrain mounted in the rear of the chassis to make it a mid-engine buggy. Due to it's lack of power, I decided to swap out the 1.6L i4 for a B6 or BP but mid build I figured hell, why not a v6? It just happened that the body shop down the road had a running 626 for $300 with bent frame rails so I nabbed it. The engine has since been removed, cleaned, rewired, and I'm moding the oil pan to relocate the sump. I used a B6 oil pickup tube, shortened the windage tray, and fabing the sump to be welded to the v6 oil pan. A new subframe has been built and bolted into the chassis. It was an 80s Berrien Sandtoy from what I've been told.

I figured I'd show you guys how the pan was done incase someone was pondering a KL-DE or ZE into a Miata. (Pics to come)

Here's pics of the rail. And ofcorse it's street legal. 1/4mi calculator says [email protected] = 10.4sec. Might need tractor weights in front.

More to come...

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KL-DE powered sand-rail-ebay-pictures-111.jpg   KL-DE powered sand-rail-ebay-pictures-115.jpg   KL-DE powered sand-rail-ebay-pictures-121.jpg   KL-DE powered sand-rail-ebay-pictures-129.jpg  
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:30 PM   #2
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That is very cool. Only thing I would do is change the front wheels to something wider so it can grip around turns better.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
That is very cool. Only thing I would do is change the front wheels to something wider so it can grip around turns better.
Im hoping you meant to say that wider tires would allow for a softer compound tire to last longer, not that the actual width of the tire would improve traction...



But anyway,
very cool project. Ive always wanted to build one with a VW powerplant. I loved my Formula Vee racing days, and it would be cool to build a bloated, 2 seater, street legal formula vee, with a badass engine of course... probably turbo...
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:21 PM   #4
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It looked like an RC car and the kid in me couldn't say no.
It's like you bought a 10/10th scale Associated RC10.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:22 PM   #5
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How much you pay for that thing if you don't mind me asking.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:24 PM   #6
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Im hoping you meant to say that wider tires would allow for a softer compound tire to last longer, not that the actual width of the tire would improve traction...
Wider wheels, wider tires, better traction. Who cares about how long they last? That isn't exactly a daily driver.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:33 PM   #7
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
Wider wheels, wider tires, better traction. Who cares about how long they last? That isn't exactly a daily driver.
Wider tires of the same tire compound dont offer any more traction, force and friction are independent of surface area. although their may be improvements in handling due to stronger sidewalls and keeping more contact with uneven surfaces.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:23 PM   #9
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force and friction are independent of surface area.
Thats only really true with non-deformable surfaces. That thing looks like a blast. I'm thinking about useing a KL-ZE in an atom replica i'm designing.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:07 PM   #10
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I'm torn between a twin turbo KLZE swap and a naturally aspirated small block with prototype high rpm valvetrain gear on the cheap. I like boost but feel V8 swaps are well documented so that'd be easier and probably less expensive. Hmmmmm.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:24 PM   #11
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From what I've seen with local buggy guys, kl motors are quite popular in these things. A machinist I know started with a super beetle 1.6 and ended up with a klde on his road legal buggy and it's FAST.

I bet that thing is a blast to drive.
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Old 06-26-2010, 01:11 AM   #12
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In for video, actually video or die!
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:13 AM   #13
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It's well on it's way. I got the harness and ecu today and bolted on the custom pan I fab'd. It won't be done overnight but give me a week or two and it'll be running.

Tim... Boost the KL man. Don't slop a fat pig of a v8 into anything. Small and efficient is the way to go. KL's have been built to 1000hp. How you been btw?

I paid less then I sold my Miata for how about that? lol

Handling is surprisingly good considering those are spare tires up front. It'll whip around corners like a go-kart with no body roll. Much better then I expected really. The rest of the shop insists I do an autocross with it.

Since the body is just sheet metal I should paint up an extra set of RC-10 look-alike body panels for it. haha
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Old 06-27-2010, 10:49 AM   #14
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Love the KL. And they do very well with boost- transmission not so well. I know of one mx3 (rebel on mx6.com) that was running 15psi holset on a KL for 400whp. Typical fwd issues- no traction, and if it had traction it was tearing up the trans. 1000lbs should be much easier on the trans when you boost.
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:50 AM   #15
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And the sound. mmmm.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:16 PM   #16
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And the sound. mmmm.
That's another reason the KL was picked over a B6 or BP. I have 2 Suzuki GSX-R mufflers for it too. I ran one of those mufflers on the old 1.6L Ford engine before I pulled it and it was quieter then I thought it would be. A KL through 2 of them will sound sweet.

The engine goes in tonight. On the mounts anyways. I'll wire up the starting and charging systems but engine management wiring will be another day.

I'll get more pics.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
Wider wheels, wider tires, better traction. Who cares about how long they last? That isn't exactly a daily driver.
If it is meant for sand, skinny front tires are better. They are supposed to dig in the sand. Wide tires float on top, and offer little traction. So in a sense, sand front tires are more like rudders.
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:39 PM   #18
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This is going to be so badass.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:48 AM   #19
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Ok here's some pics.

The gastank was moved down, forward, then tipped at an angle to allow room for a fuel pump to be mounted under it and also to make room for the front trans mount. The battery was relocated from behind the passengers seat to the front center of the chassis. The Honda Civic sized battery and an angle iron frame fit perfectly between the tubes. The ECU, relays, etc. will be mounted in a box in the old battery location. This keeps wiring to a minimum. Only a constant power, ignition, and start signal will run to the box. A few more wires will run out of it for sensors and what-not but that's alot less then a full harness had I mounted the ECU in front.

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Here I was test fitting the engine. That engine mount ended up being cut off due to a mis-measurement. When the engine was in the 626, I measured between the strut towers and then marked the center on the engine's intake manifold. Apperently the accident jacked the car so hard the engine was at least 2" off center. I'll make another later once I know center. The frame tube at the bottom of the first pic has been removed and the engine moved back another inch to make room needed for the front trans mount and to give the alternator bracket some clearance.


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Here's the custom oil pan. The engine had to be moved left which made that notch almost not needed. It holds 7qt now and has baffles in it to keep oil near the pickup tube. Also shown is the quick mod I made to the steering wheel release. I put in a roll pin and a spring to take the looseness out of the steering wheel. Put the wheel in place then push down till it clicks. Worked great! The lower control arms are from the 626 and installed reversed. Left side on the right and visa-versa. This was done to keep one of it's mounts closer to the bulk of the sub-frame where it attaches to the main chassis. I think it's stronger this way then to have the mount way at the rear. The front bushing is Mazda with the old brackets cut off and a 1/4" thick strap welded around it. 2 bolts will hold it to the subframe through round thick-walled tubing welded into the subframe. I'll show more detailed pics of that later. Mounting it this way gives me a little bit of caster adjustment by shimming the front of the a-arm up or down. I doubt I'll need it but the a-arm should swing inline with the strut which does have a slight caster angle to it.

EDIT - Now that I think about it, it won't effect the caster at all.

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Last edited by lazzer408; 06-30-2010 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 06-30-2010, 07:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbrown View Post
Thats only really true with non-deformable surfaces. That thing looks like a blast. I'm thinking about useing a KL-ZE in an atom replica i'm designing.
Sorry Z, I forgot I wanted to respond to that post. The Atom is a sweet car. The KL is a sweet engine. It takes well to power mods. Check any MX-6 or MX-3 forums. That engine has been built to levels higher then any trans you'll find. 800-1000hp levels. 9000rpm anyone? Yes and on the stock crank! It's very well made and it's all-aluminum block keeps it light. I think it weighs about the same as a B6/BP or not far from it. Rods, pistons, and boost will get you to 400hp easy and you can't argue with the exhaust note from this engine.
I'd like to note, the intake mounting surface, at the head, flows straight down. The mounting surface is flat not like a Chevy V8. In other words, a single plate of aluminum can lay over both heads. This make it VERY easy to make a custom intake, ITB, or supercharger setup.

Check out this site for pics of it's internals. 4-bolt "mains" woot woot. http://www.davidandjemma.com/mazda/KL.htm

Don't forget to read this! http://www.davidandjemma.com/mazda/S...E%20920677.htm

And check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0Id...ayer_embedded#!


Here's what I mean about the intake ports.



Last edited by lazzer408; 06-30-2010 at 08:30 AM.
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