Late Night FE3 Musing - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-03-2015, 02:19 AM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default Late Night FE3 Musing

So I was thinking today while bored at work about building an FE3 to replace my vvt motor once it ***** the bed or I get tired of it breaking other parts of the car. Its 1.9 liters and has a rod to stroke ratio of 2.11:1 (yes holy ****). 88mm bore and 77mm stroke. Literally have it all figured out but one thing.

-FE3 block and head
-F8/F6 crank
-6.4" long small block chevy rods with the small end milled narrower and bushed for a 22mm wrist pin
-Wiseco PN K634M88 pistons might need .5mm skimmed off the top but will otherwise work and result in ~10.4:1 compression
-Mazda F series Clevite 77 bearings
-Toga Racing f2t high volume oil pump
-ARP head studs
-Kia Head Gasket
-BC B18 Vtec double valve springs with ti retainers. inner valve spring slightly ground for head clearance, retainer machined to clear valve lock
-SR20 valve locks
-Manley +1 VG30DETT valves
-Lifters 33mm X what length?

And I break down at the lifters. Does anyone around here somehow happen to have a FE3 lifter kicking around to just get its height measured? Its 33mm diameter, I know that much, which means unless its some mega oddball length that there is going to be some aftermarket or OEM solid lifter solution that will work that is much lighter than the people who are replacing their hla springs with a steel rod.

The other break down is finding a crank that wasnt sold in this country.

Also on this note, if someone could find some 6.8" long sbc con rods then you could use an F2 block instead of the FE3 block with all the other parts being the same and have a 2.25:1 r/s ratio. lol.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2015, 10:51 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

I'm no help with your solid bucket issue* but when I priced out wiseco (k1) con rods for my build, custom length/diameter rods were a very minimal upcharge if anything, if you had the months to wait for them. I chose an off the shelf rod and they made the piston to match it, which was the faster & cheaper option. Non-catalog pistons didn't cost me any extra but that may be due to my sparkling personality.

*it may be easier to have Manley spin you off some valves to fit buckets you know exist, or have supertech do some buckets. I've never dealt with supertech, not sure if they have a charge or minimums for that work.

My perspective is limited to the pushrod race engine viewpoint but that said none of the high end "race" pushrod engines use off the shelf/catalog parts. Except the Valve springs & gaskets maybe. Point being it is common for these companies to build small volume (1 engine) components to customer specs.

Last edited by TurboTim; 01-03-2015 at 11:04 PM.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2015, 12:06 PM   #3
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Thats interesting. I was under the impression that custom rods was going require me to write a check that starts with a 1 and has 3 numbers after it.

And looking at k1's parts it kind of amusing how much lighter the import rods are even when they have to withstand the same or sometimes even more hp/cylinder than the domestic rods and dont have significantly larger big ends. The difference seems to be 3/8" bolts vs 7/16th.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2015, 01:54 PM   #4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

I also realized that the fwd/rwd head gaskets people talk about for these motors is the same as the old and new BP head gaskets. So I actually want the fwd head gasket and a coolant reroute. And even better news is that someone makes and FE3 fwd head gasket.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 11:17 PM   #5
Newb
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Eugene,OR
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 6
Default

What ARP head studs are everyone using? I've been trying to find out but there is a lot of hearsay and speculation out there.

I have my FE3 torn down right now, I will measure the lifter and shoot you some numbers.
XS Hack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 03:17 AM   #6
Newb
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Eugene,OR
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 6
Default

So over all height of the lifter (I used a mic) is .941 (23.9 mm). Cam contact face to valve tip contact is .776 (19.71 mm).
XS Hack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 08:18 AM   #7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Cool. When I get some free time I'll see what ought to fit.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 04:23 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Cool thread, I missed this. Looks interesting, could potentially build a sweet engine!
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 05:28 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

More info on this "Toga high volume F2T oil pump" plz.

I'm about to try to spin my F2T to like.... 7500rpm or something.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 05:31 PM   #10
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
More info on this "Toga high volume F2T oil pump" plz.

I'm about to try to spin my F2T to like.... 7500rpm or something.
Lol it was something I found mentioned somewhere in some build thread and theres only like one place to buy it and it seems sketchy. The kia pump is supposed to maybe be higher volume than the others or maybe it was the non-kia fe3 pump. I forget.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 05:32 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Lol it was something I found mentioned somewhere in some build thread and theres only like one place to buy it and it seems sketchy. The kia pump is supposed to maybe be higher volume than the others or maybe it was the non-kia fe3 pump. I forget.
Eh **** it. It's just a stock bottom end anyways. I'll see what breaks first. Probably nothing, because F2T.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:29 PM   #12
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 669
Total Cats: 29
Default

...Or you could do an LS swap for cheaper with less headache. Make more power reliably.
yank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:35 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yank View Post
...Or you could do an LS swap for cheaper with less headache. Make more power reliably.

I think Leafy is interested in continuing to run SSM, not XP.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:37 PM   #14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Less headache than a custom oil pan and mounts and drilling 2 holes in a miata 6 speed?
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:37 PM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

Pushrods lol
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:39 PM   #16
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 669
Total Cats: 29
Default

look into 4g63 pistons.

Havent had a chance to look at dimensions yet but i'll be looking at them for the next build. a quick look sounds promising.
yank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:41 PM   #17
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Theres a ton that have the right valve angle and bore. K20, H22, etc.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:42 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

3sgte.

Puerto Rico dude i talked to ran CP 3sgte pistons in an F2 bottom end, FE3 head. Made power for days.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:48 PM   #19
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 669
Total Cats: 29
Default

I'm running H22 high comp pistons. You have to open up the head a bunch for the dome and they don't like pump gas. Prone to det.
yank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 06:50 PM   #20
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Thats the other reason I like the K20's if 10.4 is too much there are larger combo chamber options than the part number I posted.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM
Are my coils failing? viriiguy General Miata Chat 5 09-28-2015 08:39 PM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM
First Miata Rhidell Meet and Greet 1 09-27-2015 10:42 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:50 PM.