Lifter scoring in head - what to do? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-22-2011, 10:10 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default Lifter scoring in head - what to do?

This is the '99 head I'm working on for the new build.

IS there anything I can do about the lifter grooves - polish them? will it work long term? Is it anything to worry about? Last thing I want is a stuck open valve because the lifter got stuck... Pics from android - not the best, but hopefully you can see the rings in the aluminum head. There is about 5 that catch the "fingernail" test. Mind you, this will have new supertech springs and valves and under crazy boost ( If it's not f'ed.




Attached Thumbnails
Lifter scoring in head - what to do?-img_20111122_123728.jpg   Lifter scoring in head - what to do?-img_20111122_123709.jpg   Lifter scoring in head - what to do?-img_20111122_123704.jpg  
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 10:25 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

Ouch. I'd find another head for my build if those are as bad as they look.
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 10:39 PM   #3
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,370
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Y u no VVT?
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 11:00 PM   #4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

Me was broke - 99 head cheap, now C why.

Didn't go VVt b/c was skeared of finding a way to control it then - maybe not so much now.

Finding this after paying for shave and P&P on head sucks ***** - never will use that machine shop again, especially after finding alum shavings in the stem seals - they didn't even remove them when doing the work - nor tell me about this

This is Grreeaaaattt...

Last edited by GeneSplicer; 11-22-2011 at 11:14 PM.
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 11:17 PM   #5
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,327
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

I'd think in the big question here is whether any of the grooves are standing proud such that they protrude inwards into the bore.

If they are merely recesses, then I can't see them doing much harm. If they are protruding, perhaps you can just shave them down a bit with a knife and run a brake cylinder hone through it lightly?
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2011, 11:31 PM   #6
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

None of them seems to protrude into the bore, just grooves into the wall.

Another thing I noticed during dis-assembly, was the well-worn steel washers/spacers/perchs that the springs sit on to prevent grooving into the head - one was half worn, and they put it back in, dumb asses.
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2011, 01:44 AM   #7
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

John Day Custom Engines has stacks of good 99 heads at the shop, that might be your best bet.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2011, 01:52 AM   #8
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 254
Total Cats: 0
Default

In for information.
85z28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2011, 11:48 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto Area, Ontario
Posts: 139
Total Cats: 29
Default

How much clearance between the lifter and the bore itself? Is it within spec?
oreo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2011, 11:54 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,982
Total Cats: 10
Default

I can't see that causing any issue. I mean the lifter isn't going to wobble due to those small grooves, it will slide right past them. I am curious as to how they came about to begin with.
miatauser884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2011, 11:33 AM   #11
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

Yeah me too... I haven't mic'd them, but I'd bet they're in spec, just the presence of the"rings" has me concerned. I'll probably try polishing them. The lifters themselves look great.
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2011, 01:06 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,982
Total Cats: 10
Default

I'd be careful trying to polish them. If you use a small drill hone you don't want to enlarge the entire bore.
miatauser884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2011, 01:39 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,244
Total Cats: 291
Default

I've used a handful of engine builders over the years and none of them want to use any parts that show wear like that. Their point is being that why use something like that when you can spend a couple hundred bucks and get one that's "right". Let's say that those grooves don't protrude inward- then what are they going to do to the oiling of the lifter in the bore? Do you want to try it out and see or do you want to just find another head and not...?

Cam journals look like they're worn also from the pics. If that's the case it's probably a thrust bearing head.
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2011, 01:45 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto Area, Ontario
Posts: 139
Total Cats: 29
Default

^ yes, from experience, the lifter itself does not wear, the bore wears.

If the bore is badly worn, perhaps the lifter could rock when the cam moves over it. This is the only explanation I can think of, that could possibly cause this kind of mark in the bore. This is why I asked you what the clearance was.

If the clearance between bore and lifter is ok, then I would use the head, without buffing out the mark. I can't see that the mark itself, could cause any problems.
oreo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2011, 01:49 PM   #15
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,370
Total Cats: 1,332
Default



I think m2cupcar has the right idea- looks like a thrust bearing head.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2011, 02:11 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,982
Total Cats: 10
Default

with above info, i think it is too risky to not get a new head. i would take the head back to the builder and demand they reperform the work on the new head. those marks were obviously there before the work was performed. was this southern cylinder head?
miatauser884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2011, 06:13 PM   #17
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
GeneSplicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 2,006
Total Cats: 147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
was this southern cylinder head?
Yep - and i doubt they'd do anything since I've had it for so long. I shoulda pulled it all apart soon after I got it back. You guys are right - better safe than sorry and cut my losses now before risking a valve to piston contact or alum shavings floating around should 'something' happen remotely related to the scoring. Maybe this is my opportunity for a VVT head with the controller...
GeneSplicer is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 Yesterday 09:00 PM
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:53 PM.