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Old 04-20-2010, 12:46 AM   #1
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Default Looking for drift power bitches!!

I knew that title would get some people fired up LOL

Anyway, I want some input from you folks.

I am at 330hp and 315tq on a dynopack or whatever that hub dyno is.

Anyway, thats ****. I want closer to 400hp and TQ.

I am at almost 21psi. I can go up to about 27-28.

I want to put the stock intake manifold back on. I have a stock gutted one right now. I think the stocker style will help me spool up about 500rpm sooner. I need that running with these big boys. Full boost by 3500 or 3800 would be much better than 4200 like I am now.
These guys I run against have 100-400 more hp and tq than I do. So I need to work with what I have to squeeze out more power. Boost coming on sooner will help me out.

So I am thinking stock intake manifold for better spool.
Increase boost for more power
Maybe run c16 for gnarly tuning possibilities????

What do you guys think about cams? I mean will it hurt my low end or would it remain the same and help my top end keep pulling??

Anyway, you guys know what I do and what I am looking for. I am in a Miata. I have to make it more bad ***..
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:56 AM   #2
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Run E85 so you can advance timing like a ***** and use a 75 shot to spool the turbo....I am not kidding. We used to have a local guy who used a shot to spool his turbo. What is your current redline? What rear gear do you have? 5spd or 6spd? Have you trued any anti-lag settings on the ECU so that when you go to clutch kick/put in the clutch, it'll spool the turbo?

I'd look into some mild cams as you mentioned as well. BTW, what size tires are you running in the rear?




Or I could **** you off and say grow a V8 under your hood
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:00 AM   #3
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turns at that range maybe you need to step up to anice long runner sheetmetal unit with good plenum volume and if drift power is realy an issue put in a 4.3 r/p out back you will still be able to hit 120 or so mph instead of the 140 a 4.1 will get you. I think you are going about things all wrong the problem isn't how much power you are making it is your gearing
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:16 AM   #4
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+1 on e85. You could go nuts on the timing
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:06 AM   #5
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+1 on gearing. personally, im tired of explaining how gearing can completely transform your car.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:36 AM   #6
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You need VVT and a good intake manifold. You will struggle hard to make 400whp on a 2871, and you sure as hell won't come near that number with a .64 2871R. Cams are the wrong way to go.

You're going to struggle to get full spool by 3800rpm and 400whp without a lot of help. Tubular manifold, VVT, intake manifold, everything.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:50 AM   #7
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tubular exhaust manifold.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:55 AM   #8
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You need a hybrid 4G63 wideblock motor with an RX7 TII trans.
Or an LS3 swap.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:04 PM   #9
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I assumed you had a tubular EM. A good tubular exhaust manifold and a gentle radius large bore downpipe have each separately reduced spool RPM for various people by 500 or so and generated more power at any given RPM. Are you running a 3 inch straight through exhaust from the turbo back? You need one.

Cams can have the unfortunate effect of bumping your powerband further up the RPM range, unless you focus on adding a little more lift and not much more duration. Cams are expensive for the power difference they will make over other items.

Could you post a laundry list of your setup so we can all look at it without going searching for it? It might help.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
You need a hybrid 4G63 wideblock motor with an RX7 TII trans.
Or an LS3 swap.
Pshh.

6 bolt G4cs + Bill H's t56 adapter & a TII diff swap . Think big.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
Pshh.

6 bolt G4cs + Bill H's t56 adapter & a TII diff swap . Think big.
t56 adapter?? You serious? I am interested. I have the TII rear ready to go in.

I have a 2871r with the .64
3" dp and all 3" exhaust no mufflers
110 leaded VP
stock cams
BEGI ex manifold log type
880 injectors
techIIIr EMS
I have the 6 speed with 3.63s in the rear. I think my gearing is fine. So far it has worked well. all 3rd gear at Long beach. 4th gear on the bank at Irwindale down to third for the infield.
That will have to go soon anyway. The 6 speed sucks. I need to save for the a different tranny. Either the quaife gear set or something like a t56 if that adapter is actually a true story.
My red line is set at 7700
I have +1mm valves on both sides
I have volvo v55 springs.

I think that should be all the info you need.

Thanks for the input guys.

I cant throw in a LSx yet. I dont have the cash and I am not sure I can get it to sit where I want it in the car, and still be within the rules for subframe and firewall modifications. It would be great though.

I dont have any anti lag or spooling set up in the tune. Dont know if the system does that.

Hope that helps. I also want to stay away from nitrous. Its just another thing to worry about.

Thanks again folks
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURNS101 View Post
t56 adapter?? You serious? I am interested. I have the TII rear ready to go in.

I have a 2871r with the .64
3" dp and all 3" exhaust no mufflers
110 leaded VP
stock cams
BEGI ex manifold log type
880 injectors
techIIIr EMS
I have the 6 speed with 3.63s in the rear. I think my gearing is fine. So far it has worked well. all 3rd gear at Long beach. 4th gear on the bank at Irwindale down to third for the infield.
That will have to go soon anyway. The 6 speed sucks. I need to save for the a different tranny. Either the quaife gear set or something like a t56 if that adapter is actually a true story.
My red line is set at 7700
I have +1mm valves on both sides
I have volvo v55 springs.

I think that should be all the info you need.

Thanks for the input guys.

I cant throw in a LSx yet. I dont have the cash and I am not sure I can get it to sit where I want it in the car, and still be within the rules for subframe and firewall modifications. It would be great though.

I dont have any anti lag or spooling set up in the tune. Dont know if the system does that.

Hope that helps. I also want to stay away from nitrous. Its just another thing to worry about.

Thanks again folks
You want to make more power? Ditch that t2 flanged turbo/mani and get a .63ar 3076 (or larger) and something tubular. At 21psi on 110 leaded race gas with a motor that built you should be closer to 375-400hp, and you will have a nice fat torque curve if you are revving that high. I mean..****, I'm running a bigger turbo than you are :P.

Also, a G4CS is a 2.4l hyundai engine based on the mitsubishi 4g64 (basically the same thing actually) and Bill H. Makes adapters for those motors, not BPs :(. Sorry to get your hopes up. I was responding to Ben's assertion that you should go with a mitsu sirius family engine.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:55 AM   #13
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those 363s are killing you get a damn 4.3 dude and you will have shorter gears and spool faster.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
those 363s are killing you get a damn 4.3 dude and you will have shorter gears and spool faster.
how the hell will shorter gears make him spool faster?

shorter gear = less load = slower spool.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:10 AM   #15
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You need a tubular exhaust manifold, a good intake manifold, a .86 A/R housing, and a VVT head. Full chat by ~4500rpm, maybe better with some good headwork, and power out well beyond 7000rpm.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
how the hell will shorter gears make him spool faster?

shorter gear = less load = slower spool.
more mechanical advantage newb. His motor will spool the same but his effective torque will change honestly it isnt that ******* hard. Have you ever noticed how a 4.3 equiped car with traction can pull harder than a 4.1 equiped car given the same hp. This is why the differential multiplies the torque to a greater extent making his power useable sooner. The lower number dif he has is for people who dont wanna spin there tires all over the place and hook up of the line not for people who want to make there tires into smoke as they shred and apex. Have you even considered what he is trying to do? Or are you just throwing out factoids assuming i dont know what the hell i am talking about?
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:53 AM   #17
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I agree - I just went to a 6 speed but kept the 4.1 diff and now the first three gears are wild in the rain on KU36 tyres. With the old setup I would have to try pretty hard to get 2nd to spin when going straight ahead.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
more mechanical advantage newb. His motor will spool the same but his effective torque will change honestly it isnt that ******* hard. Have you ever noticed how a 4.3 equiped car with traction can pull harder than a 4.1 equiped car given the same hp. This is why the differential multiplies the torque to a greater extent making his power useable sooner. The lower number dif he has is for people who dont wanna spin there tires all over the place and hook up of the line not for people who want to make there tires into smoke as they shred and apex. Have you even considered what he is trying to do? Or are you just throwing out factoids assuming i dont know what the hell i am talking about?

You know nothing about drifting....stop it.

For everyone else-
There is a method to getting good wheel spin. You see, being able to control a high angle, big smoky slide comes down to wheel speed vs actual vehicle speed. Transmission gearing determines what rpm range you'll be in...rear gear ratio determines how long you will be there.. If the rear gear is too short, there is less difference between wheels speed and forward movement - this makes for low angle/high speed drifts. To have more control of a slide...to help control higher angles and to make speed more controllable, you want to stay in the powerband longer...which is achieved with a lower rear gear ratio. Yeah sure, a short 4.1 or 4.3 might be good for lower hp cars, but above the 300rwhp mark, it'll end up making things more difficult.

Jeff- Since we all know 240s are great at these shenanigans, have you thought about looking into the gear ratios of their transmissions vs their rearends? I'm wondering if getting close to what they have would be helpful. I honestly think a 5-spd would be the way to go with the 3.6 BUT as we all know, different courses require different things...sometimes you'll find the gearing in the 6spd useful, sometimes a 5spd will have the advantage......have you thought about tossing ina 5-spd just to get a feel for the gearing? Maybe during practice try switching transmissions to see what works best? (Yes, I know the 5-spd can shew through gears in higher hp applications...but at least they're cheap...maybe do some testing to see how long one will last for you?). As for using a bottle to help you.... it wouldn't be al lthat hard...just a small shot (50-75) via a RPM window switch to only allow it to hit at like 2,500 rpm to 4,500 rpm only at WOT......no more complicated than doing water/meth injection.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:36 AM   #19
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Why not a 3.909?
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:20 AM   #20
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Sav is right, the log is horrible for your power level. The majority of the pulse energy from each port is lost in a log and that is a huge consideration at your power levels. In a log the pulses are dissipated into abrupt corners or even crash into each other. Their energy is converted from force to heat. If the pulses are directed into the turbine housing with as few direction changes and as few flow restrictions as possible you will see substantial improvements in spool and power will be up across the board with no other changes. An added benefit of using a low mount unit such as the ABSURDflow will be a less restrictive downpipe design due to the removal of abrupt bends. Even Hustler reported substantial spool and power gains when he changed over.



+1 for porting the head as well. Just as with improving flow with the EM, improving flow through the head will net appreciable results. The engine is just a fancy air pump and the more air you can move through it, the more fuel you will be able to use and the more power you will be able to make.

I think you would benefit from a slightly larger turbo if you make these other enhancements and you choose the correct A/Rs. You can spool a larger capacity turbo at the same or lower RPMs and make significantly more power at the same boost levels if you choose correctly. I have no specific recommendations because that would require a combination of anecdotal evidence and a bit of study with compressor and turbine maps.

I understand your unwillingness to add nitrous as an additional level of complexity. I think you should remedy the basic shortcomings of your system first.

Have you spent any time plotting compressors here? http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php
You may need to change quite a few of the initial settings to obtain accurate figures so study each of them for possible adjustments (BSFC, etc.). As they say, garbage in, garbage out.

What size intercooler are you using?
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