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Old 12-31-2015, 11:41 PM   #1
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Default Msm with vvt?

So I found a local selling a VVT engine for pretty cheap. I was debating about buying it, building it, then tossing it into the MSM.

So I had a few questions, but first mods.

Rev built ms3, bolt ons, stock turbo.

So I'll probably end up staying stock turbo (doubt it).

Worthwhile to go VVT? Adjustable cam timing sounds good, upped compression doesn't. Considering the stock turbo is already maxed out.

I see MS3 has VVT tables, is it really a matter of adding pins and running it to the VVT actuator or is there more to it?

I was only able to find another thread and it seems like he had an issue with it running, then swapped the cam sensor and it was good to go.

Also are there provisions in the VVT motor for oil feed and return for the stock msm turbo?

Anyone else have suggestions?
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:18 AM   #2
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VVT is cool. Compression is fine with good tuning.

MS3 just needs another wire run.

No oil ports on the VVT motor. Or return.

If your building up the VVT why not just put lower compression pistons in.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:33 PM   #3
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True, I was also just curious, if it came down to an issue with my motor popping and needed to drop this motor in. Guess I'll go ahead and pull the trigger on this motor then!
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:46 PM   #4
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I would just slap vvt head onto the msm block

actually I wanted to do that with my last MSM, but the engine held up like a champ and I didn't want to open up a mint engine
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:01 AM   #5
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I wasn't even aware I could do that.

Is the deck height different? What about compression differences?
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:12 AM   #6
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same and comp is dictated by pistons not head
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:46 AM   #7
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MSM is a BP4W head, or a 99-00 head. VVT head is 01-05 non msm. All 1.8 heads are interchangeable.
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:59 AM   #8
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same and comp is dictated by pistons not head
Actually, that's why I asked about deck height. If the head is a bit shorter (from milling or whatever), it'll raise compression.
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:01 AM   #9
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And had you searched this thread would be pointless.
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Old 01-04-2016, 08:11 AM   #10
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Will a VVT head work on a 94 block in a 92 Miata?
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:50 PM   #11
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And had you searched this thread would be pointless.
Actually I did search. A few posts were about head swaps, but nothing MSM related. I did find a MSM that swapped in a complete VVT engine, and a few 99-00 that did the head swap, but nothing on a MSM doing a head swap....
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:50 PM   #12
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Search tells you the MSM uses a BP4W head. Which is a 99-00 head. Its all out there.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
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MS3 just needs another wire run.
So if I understand you correctly. I'd just have to run new vvt wiring alongside the harness into a MS3 and we'd be good to go if I had a NB1 and happened upon a NB2 engine for dirt cheap?

Decided to tack on to this thread instead of starting another one.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:46 PM   #14
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Pretty much. There are a few other little things, like extending cam sensor wiring, but mostly just another VVT wire.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:50 PM   #15
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you'd have to do something about the ignition system too. lots of little things, definitely not as easy as aidan makes it sound, but not super complex either relatively speaking.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:51 PM   #16
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Thanks for the fast response. this is getting awfully tempting. Just build a motor in peace while I have a driveable car

Quote:
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you'd have to do something about the ignition system too. lots of little things, definitely not as easy as aidan makes it sound, but not super complex either relatively speaking.
I'd most likely be going to COP's so that would solve that right?
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:52 PM   #17
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Every project has a lot of little things like that.
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
you'd have to do something about the ignition system too. lots of little things, definitely not as easy as aidan makes it sound, but not super complex either relatively speaking.
Can we not reuse the stock stuff? I figured with NB's they used the same trigger and cam position setup. But I've actually never worked on a 99-00. The ignition between my 03, and MSM look the same from what I remember.
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:54 PM   #19
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Not the sensors. NB1 uses the standard coils on the back of the head. NB2 and MSM use COPs. MSM and 03 are the same ignition system.

NB1+MSM use a cam position sensor on the front of the valve cover. NB2 uses one towards the back of the valve cover.
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihiryu View Post
Can we not reuse the stock stuff? I figured with NB's they used the same trigger and cam position setup. But I've actually never worked on a 99-00. The ignition between my 03, and MSM look the same from what I remember.
oh that's right msm cops and vvt cops are same
so then you'd just need to extend the cas wiring
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