No thrust bearing? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-27-2012, 10:46 AM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
Posts: 791
Total Cats: 172
Default No thrust bearing?

I value this forum's knowledge on these matters so here goes...

Once this thing started knocking i drove it straight home, maybe 8 miles. It then sat for about a year while I used the suspension on another autoX car. It then refired and ran for a few minutes when i drove it onto the trailer. We just pulled this lump out and dropped in a 00 motor last weekend. Yesterday we pulled the oil pan:

"a-central-ohio-performance-shop" built 1.9l 94 shortblock:

I FINALLY got the nerve to pull the pan off this motor...Looks like i was right to be worried

Thrust bearing floating around in there...


Looks normal so far...


what the..


you gotta be ------- kidding me...


Heres the other half and the hole it was punched through...


Here is a short video of the crank endplay present with no thrust bearing...
http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t=94403c26.mp4


#1 rod cap is discolored. There is obvious crank end play. There is stubble on the underside of #4 piston, from the bearing banging around. Im not taking anything else apart/off until I hear back from the shop that built it. Is there a chance the crank is junk?

I have sent the shop an email with these pics and video.
Do you have any advice on how to handle this?
doward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 11:29 AM   #2
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

For roughly $2500 in engine I guess you can ask for them to build it again or give you money back in some capacity. However they don't have to do either and for $2500 you're not going to hire an attorney to deal with it. It sucks, but that's the reality. I've been here before.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 11:42 AM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,516
Total Cats: 255
Default

There is a chance that everything in that block is junk, and you can't really tell until you inspect and measure all the parts.

I would measure the thickness of those thrust bearings. I don't see any way of them falling out unless they wore out super-thin.
soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #4
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,475
Total Cats: 114
Default

Generally when the thrust bearing falls out on these motors the head and cams are toast in short order. I’m not sure how it works but the cast iron that gets warn off the block ends up in the cam journals and it chews them up pretty quickly. Oil pump gets toasted pretty quick too. The side load on the oil pump might be the big source of the catastrophic nature as well. I think the oil pump becomes the thrust bearing.

There was a short production run where Mazda had an issue with some tolerances on some early NB cars 99 or 2000 where the thrust bearings would fall out from the factory. They replaced a bunch of engines under warrantee. I thought this might be a source for cheap heads but every one I have seen all the bearings were toast including the cam journals in the head and the cams themselves.

Bob
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 12:06 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (41)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 2,409
Total Cats: 19
Default

That sucks, but the reality is that this is over a year later and nothing will probably come of it from the shop. Did you voice a concern for it when you drove the first 8 miles? It is obviously their error, but time is not on your side here.

Everything needs to be disassembled and checked to make sure they are still usable. Hopefully any imperfections are minor and workable.
rharris19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 12:16 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,982
Total Cats: 10
Default

If you don't walk in to the shop with your chest all bowed up ready to fight, then I would be willing to bet they would work with you. Be calm and respectful, but ask if there is anything you guys can work out. I would stop taking it apart any further, and see if they want to see it. Maybe if you source a new engine, they'll do the labor and machining for free.

Hustlers right, they don't have to do anything, but most people do take pride in their work.
miatauser884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 12:32 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1,523
Total Cats: 4
Default

Had this exact thing happen in a built motor. The crank milled the block, the iron filled oil milled the head and cams. I can only figure the builder knocked the thrust bearing out when he set the crank, he did note that it "took forever" to build oil pressure when he was bench spinning it. I don't think I'd ever pay someone to build a motor again, unless there was a specific warranty.

You need to pull everything apart and examine everything to check for useability. My piston skirts were so nicked up that I tossed the 10 hour old pistons, too.
webby459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 12:55 PM   #8
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
If you don't walk in to the shop with your chest all bowed up ready to fight, then I would be willing to bet they would work with you. Be calm and respectful, but ask if there is anything you guys can work out. I would stop taking it apart any further, and see if they want to see it. Maybe if you source a new engine, they'll do the labor and machining for free.

Hustlers right, they don't have to do anything, but most people do take pride in their work.
I'm not saying the thread-starter would be rude, but I think most people do this. I think a good machinist knows that "---- happens". Sometimes a valve-spring goes in backwards, sometimes there are arithmetic errors, and other times they can simply make mistakes. I don't know about you but if I own this business, I'd see this as an opportunity to have a customer for life by making good on the work.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 01:36 PM   #9
Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clinton MA
Posts: 5
Total Cats: -1
Default

Add me to this list. I just bought a 2000 with a recently rebuilt motor and the same problem. Only lost one rod but the block and crank are junk.
cbaylis77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 01:38 PM   #10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
Posts: 791
Total Cats: 172
Default

I just heard back from the shop. They want the motor as is. They say they are willing to work with me. We shall see what that ends up entailing.
I am going to take it up to them tonight or tomorrow.
doward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #11
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 800
Total Cats: 3
Default

Good to hear it, Dan. I hope they take care of you. This might go a long way in influencing my tuner decision.

Keep us posted.
soloracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 01:59 PM   #12
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,475
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaylis77 View Post
Add me to this list. I just bought a 2000 with a recently rebuilt motor and the same problem. Only lost one rod but the block and crank are junk.
I think it was a run of the 2000's blocks that were machined wrong from the factory. they came out with a thicker thrust bearing to keep it from falling out. Im not sure of the whole story.

Bob
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM
2003 VVT Head/Valve Cover/Actuator/Coil Packs - Low Miles! - $250 StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 7 09-24-2015 04:50 PM
91 Celica manual trans, is this fucked? Onyxyth Insert BS here 1 09-19-2015 08:27 PM
SOLD-Rear knuckle/spindle upper spherical bearing adapter hi_im_sean Miata parts for sale/trade 1 09-16-2015 01:45 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:28 AM.