Is an Oil Cooler Necessary?
08-07-2019, 10:05 AM
#1
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Is an Oil Cooler Necessary?
1.9 VVT street car. Power goal is 350-400whp with an EFR 6758 and E85 (9.5:1cr, shouldn't take too much boost to hit my goal), I have the long block fully assembled and I am trying to sort out some other stuff before it goes into the car.
I already ditched the factory oil warmer, and my initial plan was to run a Mishimoto thermostatic oil cooler instead. But I see all these builds that don't even have an oil cooler (like Greg Peters) and they're making way more than my power goal. I would much rather have a sandwich plate to run both my aftermarket oil pressure and temperature sensors, and even the turbo oil feed, instead of adapting the OE BSPT to NPT and then splitting them with fragile adapters so the oil pressure and oil feed share and what not. It would save a lot of cost and make the whole process much easier and cleaner, but I want to make sure to that I'm not running into any huge risks by not using an form of oil cooling. I already have a Supermiata reroute on the engine (plus a Mishimoto 2 row radiator in the car) so that will greatly help with coolant temps, but I'm still not sure about any additional risk involved.
Any advice is appreciated, if there are any better solutions to my oil feed and sensor situation I'm open to ideas.
I already ditched the factory oil warmer, and my initial plan was to run a Mishimoto thermostatic oil cooler instead. But I see all these builds that don't even have an oil cooler (like Greg Peters) and they're making way more than my power goal. I would much rather have a sandwich plate to run both my aftermarket oil pressure and temperature sensors, and even the turbo oil feed, instead of adapting the OE BSPT to NPT and then splitting them with fragile adapters so the oil pressure and oil feed share and what not. It would save a lot of cost and make the whole process much easier and cleaner, but I want to make sure to that I'm not running into any huge risks by not using an form of oil cooling. I already have a Supermiata reroute on the engine (plus a Mishimoto 2 row radiator in the car) so that will greatly help with coolant temps, but I'm still not sure about any additional risk involved.
Any advice is appreciated, if there are any better solutions to my oil feed and sensor situation I'm open to ideas.
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08-07-2019, 10:12 AM
#2
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You shouldn't need an oil cooler for any street car with an adequate radiator, regardless of power. That said, I'm not sure the Mishimoto is up to the task. You will need to test it. You can always upgrade if it proves deficient.
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08-07-2019, 10:19 AM
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It'll be easy to keep an eye on oil temps anyways since I will have the sensor to do so. Thanks for the input!
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08-07-2019, 10:50 AM
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Put the oil temp sensor in the pan right above the oil drain bolt.
I mount my oil pressure sensor that goes to the MS on the oil feed fitting I use. PRL Motorsports makes one that is 2 port so you can run a sensor and oil line.
Watch your oil temps without a cooler for a while, then decide if you want to add one in later.
I mount my oil pressure sensor that goes to the MS on the oil feed fitting I use. PRL Motorsports makes one that is 2 port so you can run a sensor and oil line.
Watch your oil temps without a cooler for a while, then decide if you want to add one in later.
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08-07-2019, 11:09 AM
#5
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One more question regarding making the sandwich plate work. To my understanding you can unthread the post from the block, and it looks like I will need a shorter post to hold the sandwich plate to the block using the included adapter and then be able to put on the filter. I am pretty sure I can't just slip the sandwich plate in place of the warmer. My 1.8 block has a longer post to accommodate the oil warmer, is this as simple as removing the longer post and installing a 1.6 post (which is shorter in length since there is no OEM warmer/cooler)? I am assuming they are the same thread size.
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08-07-2019, 11:34 AM
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Not sure about all these builds making way more power, 400 whp uncorrected on a 6758 is just about all-of-it and requires significant upgrades to just about everything.
I street ~300whp uncorrected, and need everything available to remove heat, including an oil cooler. Granted, I spend more time in boost than most due to the off-idle positive mani pressure capabilities of my setup and the 15% power hit from altitude.
350-400whp is an extreme BP IMO, and will tolerate no cut corners for even a street application where the power is actually utilized. For a dyno queen... meh
I street ~300whp uncorrected, and need everything available to remove heat, including an oil cooler. Granted, I spend more time in boost than most due to the off-idle positive mani pressure capabilities of my setup and the 15% power hit from altitude.
350-400whp is an extreme BP IMO, and will tolerate no cut corners for even a street application where the power is actually utilized. For a dyno queen... meh
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08-07-2019, 11:36 AM
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Not sure about all these builds making way more power, 400 whp uncorrected on a 6758 is just about all-of-it and requires significant upgrades to just about everything.
I street ~300whp uncorrected, and need everything available to remove heat, including an oil cooler. Granted, I spend more time in boost than most due to the off-idle positive mani pressure capabilities of my setup and the 15% power hit from altitude.
350-400whp is an extreme BP IMO, and will tolerate no cut corners for even a street application where the power is actually utilized. For a dyno queen... meh
I street ~300whp uncorrected, and need everything available to remove heat, including an oil cooler. Granted, I spend more time in boost than most due to the off-idle positive mani pressure capabilities of my setup and the 15% power hit from altitude.
350-400whp is an extreme BP IMO, and will tolerate no cut corners for even a street application where the power is actually utilized. For a dyno queen... meh
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08-07-2019, 11:39 AM
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See what TSE, 949 (SM), or FM recommend. Pretty sure there is a comprehensive thread around here started by one of our community greats that discusses in great detail.
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08-07-2019, 12:47 PM
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A 300 Wheel Horse Miata will be at arrest me and impound my car speeds within 15 seconds on the street. There shouldn't be no reason for an oil cooler even in somewhat spirited canyon driving if using a large radiator like one from 949 racing or the now-defunct track speed.
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08-08-2019, 12:11 AM
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08-08-2019, 12:35 AM
#12
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I see zero reasons for an oil cooler on a street car.
Oil temp rises with sustained high rpm. Ala track usage.
100hp or 300hp, oil temp is not much different while cruising around or the occasional stop light drag.
Now track, sustained high rpm driving for 20 mins is a different story. And an oil cooler would be wise.
I remember renting a dodge SUV while snowboarding in Utah, having to climb a 8000 feet elevation mountain road, I manually dropped it to 2nd gear and drove up the mountain for 30 mins in 2nd with 4-6k rpm the whole way, that SUV had a factory oil temp gauge and it pegged at max red heat.
That's a stock rental vehicle. So in my opinion sustained high rpm is what raises oll temps. And on the street there is really no long high rpm drives. Just quick bursts.
Oil temp rises with sustained high rpm. Ala track usage.
100hp or 300hp, oil temp is not much different while cruising around or the occasional stop light drag.
Now track, sustained high rpm driving for 20 mins is a different story. And an oil cooler would be wise.
I remember renting a dodge SUV while snowboarding in Utah, having to climb a 8000 feet elevation mountain road, I manually dropped it to 2nd gear and drove up the mountain for 30 mins in 2nd with 4-6k rpm the whole way, that SUV had a factory oil temp gauge and it pegged at max red heat.
That's a stock rental vehicle. So in my opinion sustained high rpm is what raises oll temps. And on the street there is really no long high rpm drives. Just quick bursts.
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08-08-2019, 02:10 AM
#13
A 300 Wheel Horse Miata will be at arrest me and impound my car speeds within 15 seconds on the street. There shouldn't be no reason for an oil cooler even in somewhat spirited canyon driving if using a large radiator like one from 949 racing or the now-defunct track speed.
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08-08-2019, 06:26 AM
#14
I remember renting a dodge SUV while snowboarding in Utah, having to climb a 8000 feet elevation mountain road, I manually dropped it to 2nd gear and drove up the mountain for 30 mins in 2nd with 4-6k rpm the whole way, that SUV had a factory oil temp gauge and it pegged at max red heat.
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08-08-2019, 09:19 AM
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So after everyone's advice I ordered in a TDR sandwich plate, 1.6 filter stud/joint to properly delete the OE warmer and 1/8 BSPT plugs to block off the OE pressure sender port on the VVT line. I am replacing the oil pressure gauge in the cluster with a CANchecked unit anyways that will have all my temperature, pressure, boost and AFR so I have no use for that BSPT port anymore. Even my turbo oil feed will be off of the sandwich plate.
Also side note BSPT is stupid and should have never existed in the first place. NPT ftw
Also side note BSPT is stupid and should have never existed in the first place. NPT ftw
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08-08-2019, 03:06 PM
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Funny thing is what I read is the guys that know there stuff told you it wasn't needed?
IMHO on the street you need an oil warmer much more than a cooler. Street HP is pretty irrelevant as time at power is nil. Don't try to bench race yourself into mods that hurt more than help.
Drag race no cooler, street no cooler, autocross no cooler. Roadcourse yes you need a cooler and a huge one that's a PITA to fit.
IMHO on the street you need an oil warmer much more than a cooler. Street HP is pretty irrelevant as time at power is nil. Don't try to bench race yourself into mods that hurt more than help.
Drag race no cooler, street no cooler, autocross no cooler. Roadcourse yes you need a cooler and a huge one that's a PITA to fit.
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08-08-2019, 03:16 PM
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Funny thing is what I read is the guys that know there stuff told you it wasn't needed?
IMHO on the street you need an oil warmer much more than a cooler. Street HP is pretty irrelevant as time at power is nil. Don't try to bench race yourself into mods that hurt more than help.
Drag race no cooler, street no cooler, autocross no cooler. Roadcourse yes you need a cooler and a huge one that's a PITA to fit.
IMHO on the street you need an oil warmer much more than a cooler. Street HP is pretty irrelevant as time at power is nil. Don't try to bench race yourself into mods that hurt more than help.
Drag race no cooler, street no cooler, autocross no cooler. Roadcourse yes you need a cooler and a huge one that's a PITA to fit.
I did order a shorter oil filter post/stud to run just the sandwich plate but if it's a good idea to keep the oil warmer (even though I live in Houston and it never gets cold here) I can always put it on in addition to the sandwich plate by leaving the longer stud on the block.
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