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Old 03-30-2012, 04:20 PM   #1
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Default oil pump failure with pics

rite... went to a test day the other day and went out for the first session and all was well. car was pulling very well and lap times were better than good considering the track condition. about 20 mins into the 30 min session there was a red flag for 1 reason or another and i returned to the pits. as the revs dropped i noticed the oil pressure was a little on the low side at idle but the BIG oil pressure light was not on and the pressure raised with revs so i decided i would carry on the session and keep a close eye on it.

green flag was out so i returned to the track and everything seemed fine. finished the session and returned to to the paddock and the oil pressure problem was still there. i shut it down and gave it 10 mins to cool down thinking maybe the oil was getting a bit thin due to it been a hot day.

when i tried to restart the engine it fired up but the oil pressure light stayed on! i let it run for a good 5 or 6 seconds then shut it off and left it at that as i knew there was an issue.

got the car back to the workshop, removed the engine and stripped the oil pump and sump off to find the pressure relief valve on the pump was stuck open and the pump was rough as fooook!







pulled the bottom end bearing caps off and everything looks fine there. going to pull the mains and cam caps tomorrow too to check there but i think i may have been lucky.

what has caused this? it is a FM built bottom end but only had a standard damper on. do i just need an ati super damper or do i need billet gears too? the car is around 350-400bhp and only sees 7500 revs. has anyone seen a pump failure with an ati damper fitted? also where can i get some new rod bolts for the corrillo a-beam rods? here is a pic of the head.



any help much appreciated!
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:25 PM   #2
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really??!?!?1
my relief valve was stuck open



and my spring was all scored and fucked up





brand new pump from mazda. 288 miles
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:28 PM   #3
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mine was stuck open about the same amount as that. not pulled the valve apart yet. will have a look at that tomorrow too.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:56 PM   #4
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i called planet miata to ask if mazda does any kind of warranty for pumps...lol of course not.
apparently they don't even warranty crate engines, but that's neither here nor there.

[email protected] mentioned that he would make a call to jim stewart to find out what can be done about the relief valve getting stuck.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #5
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thats pretty bad that a brand new pump can do that. mine was a bit older as the engine had been in a road car for a while before it went into the race car.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:09 PM   #6
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you're telling me!
i had my car for 6 days and 288 miles after 3 months getting rebuilt...
and apparently this is a common ------- problem. needless to say, i'm a bit annoyed!
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:14 PM   #7
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i have had 1 stick closed on another race engine too. caused all sorts of problems. really losing faith in these pumps now!
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #8
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is yours just an oem pump?
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:20 PM   #9
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I'm going to be doing the BE oil pump gear but I worry about the stock relief valve in the stock housing, hmmmm
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:20 PM   #10
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yea oem as fitted by fm when the engine was built.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrew View Post
I'm going to be doing the BE oil pump gear but I worry about the stock relief valve in the stock housing, hmmmm
i'd love to see them chime in to see if there's anything they do to combat this problem.

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yea oem as fitted by fm when the engine was built.
got it...
that's what i figured, just wanted to make sure.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyb View Post
i'd love to see them chime in to see if there's anything they do to combat this problem.


They have complete pumps for sale that should take care of you. I'm just really cheap and want to only buy the gear. Hmm maybe i'll save a bit more and go complete from them after seeing this and hearing more about the RValve.

If you have oil pump needs they are the way to go. http://www.boundaryengineering.com/drupal/node/7

I wont dare put a stock pump gear into a built engine, jut not sure how far I want to go on the whole housing....
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:47 PM   #13
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tempted to buy a BE race pump but spoke to keith at FM and he said he has not heard of a failure with an ati damper fitted and recommended the later vvt engine pump as it is higher capacity.... maybe i just need to buy a race pump and damper to be sure.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrew View Post
They have complete pumps for sale that should take care of you. I'm just really cheap and want to only buy the gear. Hmm maybe i'll save a bit more and go complete from them after seeing this and hearing more about the RValve.

If you have oil pump needs they are the way to go. http://www.boundaryengineering.com/drupal/node/7

I wont dare put a stock pump gear into a built engine, jut not sure how far I want to go on the whole housing....
they're out of the street pumps. i want to buy one and i want it here NOW. lol
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:54 PM   #15
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My 1.6 oil pressure gauge has always read between 60-90psi above 4000rpm...should I be worried? I've only tracked it like this for years, lol.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyb View Post
i called planet miata to ask if mazda does any kind of warranty for pumps...lol of course not.
apparently they don't even warranty crate engines, but that's neither here nor there.

[email protected] mentioned that he would make a call to jim stewart to find out what can be done about the relief valve getting stuck.
Jim Stewart? It hopeless. Personal experience is that his business is complete ----. He learned some things about miata engine differences...and miata oil pumps...on my engine....at my expense...

Cookie-cutter spec engines: YMMV.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:02 PM   #17
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To those that had problems with pump valves after a rebuild: did you change the oil after your first 20 or 30 miles?
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #18
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i do yea but mine failed randomly on an engine with plenty of miles. do you think it was my gears starting to kill themselves that stuck my valve open or the other way around? be good to know what caused this.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:14 PM   #19
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I would assume more likely to be a failing bearing which caused tiny bits of metal to get crunched between your gears and stuck in your valve before those tiny bits of metal made it to your oil filter - when's the last time you cut open one of your used oil filters?
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:22 PM   #20
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but there was nothing in the sump or on the strainer. the gears will barley turn by hand and grind badly. the pump can not have been like this for long. so far all the bearings i have checked have been fine but i will check the rest tomorrow. never opened a filter from this engine. this was the first time it had been on the track since i got it.
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