So i have a technical question and you all are some of the smartest people i know... Shocking i know, because i hang around a lot of dumb people.

I'm going to do the best i can to explain the situation, with pictures and videos.

I've got this whole new engine setup. We went from dry sump to wet sump. And I'm having oiling issues during the turns.
V8 (LS)engine, sitting the wrong way around. Front of the engine is facing backwards.
I got straight for 10-12 seconds and turn left for about 8-10 seconds. This left hand turn is about 2 lateral g forces.
Oil pan is a custom built that myself and the oil pan builder designed for the application. I put 9 quarts of oil in it, this is about 1/4" below the windage tray. I'm running maxima 50/30 oil.

Now unlike a circle track car, the engine is sitting the proper way around so oil flings off the crank the same direction it sloshes in the turns. They also have really deep (like 8-10 inches) of sump. I don't have that luxury because the crankshaft is basically laying on the bottom of the boat. I'm suck with this flat pan.
I did have them install a makeshift "sump" with trapped doors. Maybe it helps. It also has pretty big "wings", think batwing oil pan from the early LS / corvette C5 days. That's kinda what we were going after with this.

My question is. What would you do to improve oil pressure? Where do you think my problem is? Maybe it is not the oil pan, perhaps it's a capacity issue(too much, too little)? Oil trapped in the head? Too much flow from the pump(Oil pump is Melling M295HV)? Oil weight issue? Breather / crankcase vent issue? Or anything else that i haven't thought of.

I already ordered an accusump, because if i'm not going to have oil pressure i'd at least like to have oil instead of air between the bearings.
I did check pickup depth to the bottom of the pan, but i'm going to check it again because i'm taking the pan off. I'm debating on sending it back to the oil pan builder for modifications, unless there is something i can do myself. One of the biggest issues is, i can't just go test this in the back yard, i basically have zero ability to do any testing and make changes, we only race there is no testing. Last weekend was our one and only test and tune (and i learned a lot). That's one of the biggest challenges, getting it to work properly and quickly. I've watched guys struggle to get their program to even finish a race for almost a decade now!


This is the incident. My vertical marker when i go WOT is when i enter the turn. Oil pressure immediately goes from 80-90psi down to 45psi. It kind of holds half way through the turn and then dives to 25psi where my oil pressure safety is and shuts the engine off.


This is a shot of the oil pan (roughly where the pickup sits) and the direction in which the oil sloshes in the turn. (red arrow)


Also, i have a video tour of the oil pan and i sincerely apologize for the vertical video. I wasn't planning on making this post, but feel free to crucify me.

 

At 2 G's you need to talk with Aviaid. Peterson, Dailey or some other dry sump company.
Simply put, at sustained 2g's oil will stay everywhere its not supposed to.
Accusump will help but not cure base problem.

 

This non-guru would say a dry sump running a big oil tank ... but you have gone away from that solution? If it remains an option, that would be my solution.

Do you know where the oil is under high g - in the sump/lower crankcase, or in the heads? The answer to that question might point to a solution/s. ISTR some application where an external oil drain was used to get oil back to the sump from the heads.

The accusump is a bandaid, it will help but whether it can sustain enough flow/pressure for that period I don't know. What size have you ordered?

 

Sorry, i should have specified that a dry sump is against the rules of this engine package.
Which is silly. It doesn't provide any horsepower gains or performance benefit and in fact i saw a horsepower decrease with my 350.

I have also thought about drilling and tapping the valve cover on the starboard side and running a drain line into the oil pan to see if that does anything.

I ordered a 3 quart and plan on putting it on an electric solenoid until i can figure out how / if i want to make it work with the ECU.

 

I thought it might be something like that.

Yes to the ECU control. Set it to come on around your minimum operating pressure, the lower the better, ie the longer it will last. Use a bypass with a non-return valve to allow it to recharge when the ECU shuts it off when pressure comes back up. You will probably need a restrictor of some sort in the supply line to maintain the minimum pressure, or it will dump all the contents giving you a short term recovery and then another drop.

You might need a second one, so that one empties at say 32psi, the second at 28psi, depending on what rate it discharges compared to the duration of your 'below minimum' period. Or maybe the delivery restrictor would be enough, and they both could be plumbed in parallel to the restrictor.

Best of all would be keeping the oil in the sump, preferably around the pickup.

 

This may sound stupid, but if the oil sloshes in the direction of the arrow, why isn't the pickup as far to that side as possible?

 

restricted push rods...

Keep the oil from going to the head in the first place.

Ive got Manton .040 restricted push rods in my wet sump LS in my Miata... along with Johnson 2126 axle oiling lifters and a Melling 296 high volume/high pressure pump. Also going to be plumbing in a 3qt accusump via -10 line to the rear port above where the oil filter would go... I cant plumb to the front fitting on my setup running a low mount alternator, blocks the port. Motion carries a -10 fitting for the rear fitting.
https://motionraceworks.com/products...d-fitting-10an

Chevrolet figured this out in the late 90's when they started running the C5R program. Restricted push rods...

Doesnt work in a street car, but in a track car thats at higher RPM's most of the time you put plenty of oil into the head for rocker lubrication and spring cooling.

 

I don't know exactly where it sits, but yeah, i may make one that sits as far to that side as possible. Or even bend this one over a little. It can't hurt.


A friend of mine who is an ex Katech employee(the company that developed the C5R engines) who now works for Ford motorsports recommended the same thing. I'm going to call BTR on Monday and see what they offer.


Sounds like doing a "little bit of everything" is the right move here. I just need to make the right changes, test, and document results.

 

dont waste your time... they offer **** outside of their off the shelf stuff...

Edit: dont get me wrong I like BTR stuff, im running their platinum .660 springs and their shaft mount rocker setup... but anything "custom"... they just dont offer it.

Call up Manton. I paid 240 shipped for a set of custom length push rods, 3/8 diameter, with 040 restrictors.

Off the shelf BTR's were damn near 200...

 

I'm trying to save some cost with off the shelf stuff. lol
Currently running Comp cam, Comp ls7 lifters, BTR pushrods, BTR beehive springs, BTR LS3 rockers.

I'll call Manton first then. I have Trend right up the road too, i can see if they have anything off the shelf.

Because the cam is massive with a stock base circle and i took so much off off the heads and the deck i had to run super short push rods and even still i'm just over 2 turns preload.
I think at this point i'm absolutely getting into custom stuff.

 

Nothing off the shelf will have restrictors... And like I said a full custom over sized push rod was only 40-50 more than off the shelf stuff so we're not talking 2-3x the cost. It's negligible in the grand scheme.

Do you have a length checker tool?

Manton, Smith bros and likely Trend as well will not sell you custom push rods without a measurement to the .001. my Mantons measured within +- .002...

Doing the "turns to preload" is garbage also on a race engine imo... Measure every push rod, add your preload your lifter likes, order and install and torque rocker to spec(22 ft lbs iirc)....

If you are running that big a cam how are you getting away with beehives? Highest lift beehives I have seen were like .620...

 

Yeah i have a checker and i have all the lengths already written down. They were all within .002. I never measured 2 turns of thread. Spec for the lifter says .070 to .100". I'll just add to my measurement.

The cam doesn't have a ton of lift(.541"), just has a bunch of duration. I ended up degreeing the cam to a hair over 11 degrees (what the card actually said). I don't have my notes in front of me but valve to piston clearance was just less than .075" which is probably way to close.

 

you got more ***** than me...

I think the standard accepted is like .080 for intakes and like .100 for exhausts...

If I was running that tight on the exhaust I would likely try to be running the OEM inconel exhaust valves that were in the truck motors... I "think" they have less thermal expansion than the stainless LS3 valves. I would also be running probably a "better" spring than some beehives just to make sure valve train stability was maintained.... unless you are only turning the motor to like 6k... then you're probably ok with the beehives. I always thought dual's were more for if you broke a valve spring you kinda had a backup in there to keep things from totally going to ****, but I guess a bigger part is spring harmonics and having essentially 2 spring harmonics via 2 different sized springs to keep the spring out of the bad harmonic ranges and possible leading to valve float... thats above my pay grade to really understand, but I guess it makes sense.

You could also likely give your piston tops a light valve relief cut. I think somebody sells a jig for doing it.

 

Engine is an LM7. It's "stock" class racing so there are a ton of rules. I'm not allowed to get too wild.

So i had an interesting day tearing the whole thing apart. I feel like an absolute idiot. I swear i checked this. Of all the stuff i measured twice, three times, documented and checked again i'm not sure how i overlooked this. I was probably heavy on the beers that day...
Playdoughed the sump depth and found it to be about 0.750"-0.800".



This is about where the pickup sits in the sump. Right about dead center.

 

Yea thats a bit long...

I think I am about 3/8's or something like that. might be slightly less.

I think the range is 1/4" to 1/2"... Anything over and...well...issues like you have...

I would still explore the restricted push rods, but get that down closer to the pan and I bet a lot of your issues go away.

 

Yup, restricted pushrods are coming for sure. Going to have to get them custom made, no big deal. Hopefully i have them in time for my first race.

 

Manton is like 2 days plus shipping time on pushrods.

 

Yup, ordered from Manton today. Reduced to .040. It's what they recommended.
I'm going to fix the oil pickup myself, may do some light mods to the baffling, bust mostly pickup.
Then add the accumulator.

These things should give me a fighting chance now.
Thanks for the help.

 

Move the pickup to the side and or tilt the engine. What about crank scrapers? I have seen many wet sump applications have a pressure drop from aerated oil. If your oil temp is relatively low you might consider an oil weight change.