Notices
Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: KPower

Oiling Gurus Needed

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Yesterday | 04:49 PM
  #21  
Erat's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,728
Total Cats: 830
From: Detroit (the part with no rules or laws)
Default

Not allowed to touch the heads at all. Though i did snap off a few small pieces of casting flash. I didn't have a single drop of oil in my catch can (though my breather setup could probably use some work) so i don't know how much oil is staying in the heads. Though we'll see when i get into race conditions and i don't lift my foot for 10 minutes.

I just measured for a crank scraper and windage tray today. Improved racing makes one that will fit. I've talked to Mike (the owner) before, real smart dude so i'd be happy to support his company.

I'm just doing everything i can before i cut into the belly pan. I mean, i'm not scared of carbon fiber work, but i do want to avoid it if possible. I've also got a bran new belly pan and safety cell ready to go in over next winter. This should get me another inch of depth.


Old Yesterday | 05:13 PM
  #22  
sixshooter's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,228
Total Cats: 3,572
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

I've been pondering on this for a little bit. I don't think I like your baffle design or your oil pan design. You don't need that kick out all the way to the front and back on that left side in the picture where the oil is going to go. Because that's where all the oil is going to go. I would eliminate that and have the leftmost item be your pickup tube and a pocket just for it. You want to visualize how this is actually working when you're in a turn, turn that pan up on its side ninety degrees and think about where the oil is. It's not going to get to that pickup. Not even close. It's got too many places to the left to go before it can reach the pickup.
Old Yesterday | 05:45 PM
  #23  
Erat's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,728
Total Cats: 830
From: Detroit (the part with no rules or laws)
Default

I pondered that too... But, i ran this same style of pan before, with the big kickout. I still have it on a backup engine.
But this is my thought process and tell me if this doesn't make sense. I got 8 quarts of oil in this pan as it sits now, that's just below the windage tray. If i remove the kick out, all i'm doing is removing capacity, so say i go down to 5 quarts. I still have the same amount of oil that is at the pickup during this high G turn.
What i'm trying to do here is (one fix the pickup and put it as far to the right (left side of the engine) as possible and as low as possible. Then keep as much oil out of the cylinder heads as possible. Then scrape as much oil off the crank and get it back into the pan.

We're going to find out if this is enough to keep oil at the pickup.
If not, i do like what you say: I shove the pickup way over into the kickout & just remove the sump. Or create a "trapezoid" out of the kickout and put the pickup in it.
That's how i had Moroso build my dry sump pan(kind of), but that was easier to do because i just had a 2 suction lines out the top of the kickout that went to the pump.

My backup 350 engine runs a wet sump with a very similar pan and no windage tray:


This is where the pickup is.


My 350 dry sump pan(2 stages of suction):
Old Yesterday | 07:32 PM
  #24  
Gee Emm's Avatar
Elite Member
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,614
Total Cats: 249
From: Canberra, sort of
Default

Chiming in to say that I agree with Six. You want the pickup to get oil at idle/low revs, but most critically at high revs/high G. To me, that means you bias your pickup to where the oil is at high load/G/revs. At other times you have a sump full of oil, and the pickup location is almost irrelevant.

The question of oil volume is partly a question of oil pump flow at racing revs and the rate of return to the sump in racing conditions. The first is presumably readily available, the second, not so much. Except that, ATM yours is 'not enough'. Possibly, depending on how the relocated pickup performs in finding oil that is not available to the current configuration, and new pushrods better drainage.

Personally, I would prioritise the high load/revs/G sittuation. The pushrods will help with draining the head, windage trays and scrapers will help, but that isn't going to be of much use if the pickup can't find oil when it is needed most.
Old Yesterday | 09:52 PM
  #25  
sixshooter's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,228
Total Cats: 3,572
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

If you're trying to catch fish, you've got to get your hook where the fish are, and not where it's convenient for you, lol. It's more convenient for me to drop a hook in a 5 gallon bucket in the back yard than to drive to the lake, but I'm not likely to bring home dinner that way.

If you put the pickup in the kickout you might find oil.

By the way, at 2G's I also think your baffle doors on the left will be slammed shut by the force.
Old Yesterday | 10:43 PM
  #26  
LeoNA's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 852
Total Cats: 107
From: Commiefornia
Default

The most important change will be lowering the pickup to 7/16-1/2 above the bottom of the pan. That combined with the other mods should do the trick. If your oil temp is low you might consider a lighter oil and maybe a narrow range weight like a 0-40.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Boost Joose
Race Prep
13
Nov 12, 2014 07:59 PM
bbundy
Race Prep
75
Jan 12, 2012 03:30 PM
myrmidon
DIY Turbo Discussion
6
Jan 16, 2011 01:22 PM
falcon
General Miata Chat
55
May 25, 2010 08:24 PM
wes65
General Miata Chat
34
Mar 9, 2008 06:35 AM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 AM.