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My engine is a built 1.8LVVT with an FM turbo kit, GT2560R, 3" exhaust running 10psi or 14psi depending on my mood. Pistons are SuperTech 84mm 9.0:1 installed about 50K miles ago. The head needed a shave to return to flat, resulting in 9.4:1CR.
The engine started burning oil in the fall of 2020. This past summer, oil consumption got ridiculous, about a quart every 300 miles if I was enjoying the turbo. Teardown photos are below. Pistons 3 and 4 have a spot below the oil ring in the wrist pin area where the aluminum melted away. Number 4 was the worst with damage to the oil ring. Number 3 has the same spot but it did not break into the oil ring groove. You can see particle damage in the side pocket for the wrist pin. The wrist pins in both 3 & 4 do not turn in the piston, they will need to be pounded out with tha drift. The rod bushings also have play in them, we assume from heat.
My engine builder believes the damage was caused by heat. I have a 949 coolant reroute on the engine for the past 20k miles or so. I also have an oil cooler. Oil temps regularly ran at 240°F during the summer and water temps in the 215°F to 220°F range all the time. This summer I installed hood vents and replaced the 195°F thermostat with a 180°F thermostat. Both oil and water temps are lower, but this damage was done before those mods could have had an impact. What stumps my engine builder is the loacation of these melted spots. How can a piston have a hot spot in the pocket for the wrist pin?
If anyone has experience with this or ideas, please share. I'm rebuilding. The block is scored so we are going up to an 85mm piston. I sure would like to avoid this in the future.
WOW, that's the only thing I could think of that might cause the melting you are seeing. If the squirters are still working I don't have a clue and am VERY interested in what the final diagnosis is.
Since it's all apart anyways I'd test the squirters. Most squirters have a pressure check valve in them. They will not squirt below a specific oil pressure but above it they should work fine.
I think the Mazda ones fire at 30 psi but I'm not 100% sure. Another member may have a more accurate pressure.
Some folks disable them and I'm not sure how they are oiling the piston pins as the rods themselves do not have oil squirt holes in them.
By the time that heat from the top could trash the pin bore as your pictures show I would expect significant damage to the tops as well.
You has "double-headed weird" going on right here.
I hope someone else posts with better suggestions.
Sorry I couldn't help...
My first thought was, "There was something in the cylinder that got trapped in the wrist pin area". But if it happened on two cylinders, that would be kinda unlikely. I got nothin' but am curious as to the cause. I had a ST piston fail in the the top ring land in the area around where the valve relief was. But that's on the topside, and not the lower oil control ring.
We had initially thought trapped contaminates as well, but looking closely at the failure point, it looks like the result of intense heat at that spot.
Tom disassembled the rods and pistons today. Wrist pins 4, 3, and 2, were broken inside the rod. He tells me the rods can be saved by replacing the bushings. The pins had to be pounded out of these 3 pistons.
WOW, even more carnage.
And those are not the cheapo rods, those are GOOD rods IMO.
Still looks like excessive heat on the bottom of the pistons to me.
I wonder if the heat damage came after the pins failed?
Is #1 piston still perfect or does it have heat damage as well?
And then how in the hell can you break 3 ridiculously strong piston pins without trashing other things???
Waiting for the light bulb to turn on in my head, still waiting...
Holy crap! This is the first time I think I've ever seen a wrist pin break. I can't imagine the kind of forces needed to do something like that. I'm thinking a cyclical twisting moment from the small end of the rod, but what could cause that?
Due to the price of new Manley rods I'd not re-use the ones you have now. I'd be worried about whatever heat treating they have done to them has been altered.
That's just me being conservative but the rods are less than $100 each...
Are the bearings OK? I'd expect trashed rod bearings al least.
Before I ever re-assembled that I'd test the crap out of the piston oil jets. I'm still leaning towards an oil jet issue being the root cause.
Might try swapping the main bearing shells upper to lower to block off the mains. If that doesn't work I'd put a piece of aluminum "duct" tape over each main bearing oil hole and put the bearings back in. You shouldn't even need the crank installed. The main caps alone should hold the shells in just fine.
I'd find something to plug the VVT supply hole.
I'd find something to stick into the oil feed hole for the head. Something tapered like an ice pick. A big "tooth" pick or maybe a sharpened golf tee and just hold that in during testing.
I'd fill the main bearing journal up with oil (through the center pipe for the oil filter) and apply air to it. Watch what is happening with the jets. Did they spray the ceiling of your garage? Well then I'm even more confused.
#1 sprays but the others don't. Target DOWN and you've diagnosed your issue.
Please keep us informed. Intrigued and confused...
I wouldn’t give those rods to my enemy. IMO they are cheap rods, just like k1, eagle, etc. “expensive” rods are Carrillo, no? I don’t think some crazy force broke those, that looks like a metallurgy issue. Replace rods and pistons, good opportunity to upgrade to wisecos.
I would not re-use any of that. But that's just me. I've looked it over, agree with everyone that it's weird, hoping to have a better post for you in the morning after I've had my quad shot espresso.
It's almost like the bores were oval or something
A bit of clarification. Tom removed material from the pistons to allow the wrist pins to slide out. No force was used to remove them. The 3 wrist pins were broken inside the rods.
I wonder if the broken pins in #3 and #4 caused heat that traveled down the pin to the end were it concentrated on the bottom of the piston creating the failure we see.
Now that I think about this more, I agree with Curly. These rods are only $400 a set. If they were $1000 Carillos, I would look into rebushing. But for $400, I'm just buying another set of Manleys.
Also also, I recall a few discussions (I'll have to find them) about rods being out of spec, specifically the small end. So I'm trying to kill 3 birds with 1 stone:
1) did the timing grenade your pistons/pins
2) were the rods out of spec causing the pin damage which caused piston damage due to heat? were the pistons defective and melted?
3) was this your builders oversight and bores were out of round/spec
Based on my vast experience in engine building/re-building - over 3 (re-)builds done in the past 7 years (that's a joke, guys) - I have come to the considered opinion (everyone has one, just like everyone has an *******) that those rods were out of spec in some manner; not straight, or some error in the small end dimensions. That error over-stressed the wrist pins (long-term cyclical fatigue, or during multiple detonation events producing high shock loads) and they snapped like store-bought pasta going into a boiling pot. This either; a) dislodged a piece of the pin into the bore which wedged into the ring land and melted it and the ring land into oblivion, or b) caused excess heat in the pin bore through friction and/or rocking of the pin in the piston which caused the ring land to melt.
I've had "good luck" with Eagle rods absorbing my inexperience / laziness / stupidity and I just put some Manley rods in (after "banana-ing" a stock rod in my "alternative block"), so I'm hoping that defect in yours was an anomaly. But, as my old boss used to say, "Hope is not a strategy".
Thank you for the links. I have some reading to do.
Here is my ignition map. I finalized this in February 2019 when I did the Skunk2 manifold testing. I did not touch fuel or timing numbers after that exercise. I tuned the ECU for the Skunk2 with spacer to AFR at 12:1 at 174kPa and 11.6:1 at 195kPa. After that, I just enjoyed driving the car.
174kPa is my low boost setting. 195kPa is the high boost setting. I used 195 most of the time. Fuel was always 93 octane found in Pennsylvania and the east coast. This car went to MATG and Florida several times.
Looking at my data sheet from the engine build, the bores are all documented at 3.308" with 0.003" clearance on all 4 cylinders. We installed 84mm pistons.
definitely wasn't the timing. so I'm in agreement with the others:
likely 1) rod defect
less likely but possible 2) piston and/or bore defect
I keep looking at the picture. I don't think I have ever seen cleanly snapped pins like that before. at least not without crazy hot spots and all sorts of other damage.
After reading the links 18psi kindly provided, I'm getting frustrated. Pulling out my soap box. Most businesses in this country have sold our soul to the Chinese Government. In the name of cheap labor, we have endured **** quality control from those unscrupulous slanted-eyed, commie bastards. They will think nothing of providing samples of a product exactly as specified, only to later substitute lower quality materials to save themselves money and not alert, or lie to the US customer. Manufactured in China has fucked me on my valve stem seals, my pistons, my rods and they are currently ******* me with storage batteries in my day job. Rant over. And if I offended any Chinese people, get over it. If you don't know every word above is true, you're an idiot.
A truly appreciate everyone's input on this issue. I will check with my engine builder on the roundness of my cylinders, but I doubt this is the issue. He is an ASE Certified Master engine builder and has built engines his entire life. Unless more information presents itself, I'm thinking the wrist pins broke because of ****, Chinese material. This created heat in the bottom of the piston causing the failure. I'm buying 100% American parts to rebuild my engine for the second time. I'll be buying Carrillo A beam rods.
Now I have to find pistons. My block is already at 84mm with scored bores. I need at least an 84.5mm piston, but would like to go up to 85.0mm for the extra displacement. If I have to buy a new block, I'm going to loose my mind.
10-09-2021, 07:41 PM
Piston Damage
1
