Piston ring brand options? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-10-2010, 05:38 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,121
Total Cats: 44
Default Piston ring brand options?

Got a cheap motor that shows undesirable low compression numbers. Put a little oil down the sparkplug holes and each cyclinder increased around 30psi. This points to rings, according to the good ole hayne's manual lol.


I've done some searching about piston rings and I can't find much recommendation on brands.

All I cam across was Ross Racing rings for brands.

On rockauto is shows two different types. One, Berk/Arnley at $72 and Sealed Power (premium) at $105. Are the more expensive ones just chrome moly coated or something? This engine won't be seeing any boost, just some N/A autox time, with the occasional track event with my ITB setup. I'll be being another one of my engines for boost in the mean time.

Does anyone else have any suggested on where else to buy piston rings?
flier129 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 05:47 PM   #2
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,908
Total Cats: 1,793
Default

I had bought the sealed power ones myself. good thing they were only $60 for the 1.6L
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 05:48 PM   #3
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,207
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

Braineak got chrom moly ones and suggested them to me.
I got em and they're great.
I'd get those if I were you.


*edit: oh **** beat me to it
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 06:37 PM   #4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,121
Total Cats: 44
Default

Damn a $40 dollar difference between 1.6 and 1.8.

Question, I can still see the cross-hatches, which is surprising on a 150k mi engine. Will I still need to hone the block for the new rings?


Heres a pic of how the cyclinder walls look.
Name:  IMG_3687.jpg
Views: 239
Size:  55.6 KB

oh and yes there was massive carbon build-up everywhere. I think thats what led to the failed rings. I got most of the buildup off with some wd40 and elbow grease.
flier129 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 06:41 PM   #5
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,207
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

make sure to clean them REALLY good. can't stress this enough.

and its always a good idea to hone when replacing rings. can't hurt
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 03:53 PM   #6
IHI
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 200
Total Cats: 1
Default

Got the same question here.
Did this: Took first motor appart as a cranck bearing failed. All was lost so bought a second engine. That was pitch black on the inside so I decided to pull that one appart too. In the end the first engine was the better one so now I am using both internals to create one engine.

I brought the engine to the machine shop and had it rehoned as the cilinder was like a mirror. It wasn't worn too far the machinist told me so just renewing the surfice did the job.

Now I haven't bought rings yet. I was looking on E-bay and ran into NPR rings. I haven't found the above rings so If please give me some adresses where to purchase them ? But does anyone knows anything about NPR ?

For a re-hohned engine, what rings could be used best ?

By the way:
I dropped my pistons in the ultrasonic cleaner that was new $150 and they came out as new.
In fact: I dropped in about any part that fitted in it and it wen't in very dirty and black sludge all over it, came out as it was just made at Mazda's plant...
IHI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 04:06 PM   #7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,121
Total Cats: 44
Default

RockAuto Auto Parts is the supplier were talking about.

A ultrasonic cleaner would come in handy lol.

While were talking about pistons, what do you guys think about the condition of these pistons:

looks like some dentation
Name:  IMG_3171.jpg
Views: 232
Size:  32.5 KB

scoured sideskirts
Name:  IMG_3172.jpg
Views: 258
Size:  30.7 KB

Could I put some new rings on these JE pistons or are they shot? I can provide more pictures if the condition is in question. I'd also be willing to sell these at a reasonable price if they are reusable.
flier129 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 04:21 PM   #8
IHI
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 200
Total Cats: 1
Default

Looks like they are gone to me. The ones I considdered ready-to-bin were in better shape. I don't know what happened to the top one, all my eight pistons were in good condition on top. I had wear marks like you on the engine that still ran, but the one that had a bigend failure did not have those marks, or just a tiny bit.

Someone told me: the piston is just to close the hole. The rings will stop the leak. So you can renew them but it is a waste of money. But I do not think he would say that if he saw these pistons...

Thanks for the link.
IHI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 04:47 PM   #9
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,121
Total Cats: 44
Default

Yeah, my first thought when I pulled them was "**** they're trashed". But I started to talk to a local raceshop owner and he said they may be salavagable. I really need to take them to him so he can look them over. Pictures over the internet can only do so much.


On the plus side the top of the pistons looked fine. Just some carbon from way too much fuel when I installed the 550cc injectors.
Name:  IMG_3154.jpg
Views: 255
Size:  51.9 KB
flier129 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 04:56 PM   #10
IHI
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 200
Total Cats: 1
Default

I wan't studs like that !
I have a lot of things to do on my engine but I am stuck on not heaving piston-rings at the moment. I was looking at that engine-parts shop and it looks like a big candy shop to me. Thanks again. Saddly I am in Europe. Here is a set of rings 100. That would be like 135 dollar or so. And you will get some unbranded stuff. So for me it is a lot cheaper to look for good shops in the US that do a lot of volume and have therefore reasonable pricing.

I can spend like a ton on that little engine. Plain stupid but it all adds up.
IHI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 07:44 PM   #11
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jax, Fl
Posts: 907
Total Cats: 0
Default

I'm actually going through the same thing with pistons right now. So if the top is starting to look like that they're not good anymore?
johnmatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 08:07 PM   #12
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmatt View Post
I'm actually going through the same thing with pistons right now. So if the top is starting to look like that they're not good anymore?
nah man look at the side on the first piston you can see how it looks eaten away this would indicate to me that maybe the bore piston clearance was to tight and he was getting abit of slap on cold startups. Detonation would have pounded the top of the piston and eventualy disintegrated the ring lands. Just like mine and braineacks first motors did.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 08:16 PM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jax, Fl
Posts: 907
Total Cats: 0
Default

yeah I saw the wear on the sides. I'm talking about the damage on the top above the ring.
johnmatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 09:17 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,906
Total Cats: 112
Default

Those pistons will make I nice addition to your scrap pile. Get new pistons and sleep well at night.
miata2fast is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 10:04 PM   #15
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

well considering he didnt show us the piston out of the motor from a top down view we cant realy tell but i say replace em and be done with it. any sign of damage whatsoever is nothing i want to keep in my engine voluntarily.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 11:32 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,906
Total Cats: 112
Default

Piston skirts are designed to hold oil. The bad scratches will prevent oil from floating between the piston and cylinder walls. It will undoutedly cause premature wear to the cylinder walls.

A good piston has grooves that collect oil. Worn pistons are smooth, and do not collect the oil to keep the piston away from the walls. A badly scratched piston will let oil leak away from the grooves and allow the piston to come in contact with the walls.

Use them as paper weights or practice your free throws into a garbage can.
miata2fast is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 07:22 PM   #17
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,121
Total Cats: 44
Default

Took them to a local machine/race shop, took my rods as well. He had decent hopes for them until he saw the pin boss on #4, trashed.

I really wasn't wanting to reuse these JE's myself, I hoping maybe someone might want them for a cheap engine build for their weekend toy or something.

The shop owner said I could reuse the 3 and buy a single new one, if I really wanted to. Then he started to ask about costs for new pistons and he immediately said get all new pistons, lol.

The rods I thought were 100% fine, but turns out the guys who first assembled the engine (yet another stupid decision to buy a "assembled" motor with no paperwork) had put the rod end-caps on backwards, causing abnormal wear. The bushings on the little end are also worn, so the rods need to be refurbished, which will probly run $50-$60 per rod. I'm considering this since the Crower rods are around $750 new, although the m-tuned rods are close to same price as doing a refurbish.

Hopefully my troubles can help someone else not make the same mistake, heh.
flier129 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 03:51 PM   #18
IHI
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 200
Total Cats: 1
Default

Just bought a set of prenium rings for the 1.6. I hope they are good. Now I have to look out for some springs for the small-end. I don't wan't to re-use them.

Amazing how hard it is to source all the parts required for an engine rebuild. Seems like no one has all the right bits.
IHI is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:56 PM.