Rebuild, not repeat...spun rod bearing - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 09-17-2014, 11:54 AM   #21
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The water heater at home is likely around 125-130 degrees F and will scald you, leaving first and second degree burns. Oil should be 180 for minimum thrashing operating temperature, imo. And it warms much more slowly than the coolant, now that I have a gauge for both.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:16 PM   #22
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The oil you are looking for is Rotella T6 synthetic. It is in a blue gallon jug at Walmart. It only comes in one flavor.
I originally used royal purple 10w-30, then 5w-30. Swapped to T6 and my consumption went down, I can 'feel' the car wanting to now make power, more confident everything is being cleaned & lubricated. Temps are slightly down too

I recently read on MT, "Rotella T6, your turbo loves that sh*t, your motor loves that sh*t, You love that sh*t"
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:09 PM   #23
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Are you guys serious with the oil temp thing? A trip around the block will heat the oil enough to make it uncomfortable to pull the drain plug and have it on your hand. After 5 min of driving the oil would be very uncomfortable on your hand like putting it under the kitchen faucet turned to hot.

I almost never run my car for 5 minutes before flogging it at an autocross. Never had an oiling issue.
With an oil cooler and no T-stat on the oil cooler? I used to drive my 400whp Escort and after about 15minutes in fall (about 60F outside) the oil was still barely at 130F. That will trash bearings overtime if you put load on the engine. Heck if you run like that in winter temperatures, your oil might never even come up to temperature.
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:29 PM   #24
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Long winded again… I seem like I do that (regrets)

I think it's a combination of many factors adding to increased oil flow resistance in this case.
1) The current sandwich plate (photo) seems to have smaller cooler lines (1/2 inch?)
2) With a typical cooler installation, there is 3 - 4 ft of cooler hose (or more) - longer lines more resistance,
3) No oil thermostat, ALL oil passes through the cooler so for a long time oil is at or only slightly above ambient temp (likely < 100 F) – thicker oil more resistance,
4) Oil pressure release valve is BEFORE the cooler so, with excessive flow resistance some part of the oil dumps back to the pan...

Hint - if you are really concerned about this one due to lots of cold weather use (winter rally car?), use an external pressure release valve AFTER the cooler and you will see engine oil pressure releasing at closer to normal when cold… (See Jegs or Summit for parts) Tee into the cooler return line just before the filter (or equv at sandwich plate).
OR cover the cooler so it has limited air flow.

Stock Mazda approach solves lots of issues here:
With no sandwich plate, cooler or cooler lines AND the stock cooler warming the oil with water as the engine warms up. Items 1 – 4 are all not an issue.
Oil heats faster… Great for keeping the oil warm in an autocross application once the water is warm.

Elsewhere Savington started an Oil Cooler thread. Lots of good stuff here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...er-tech-80234/

I stated in the above thread that mounting the cooler “ports up” will keep the cooler full so there is no concern with it draining back to the pan when parked (especially in a race engine that may go weeks between startups). Full cooler less chance of a low pressure or dry start… As the Oil Filter is AFTER the cooler, the anti drain back valve there is of no benefit… See sketch.

Several configurations in attached images... Mount your cooler as you see fit, I'd mount one ports up.

Also note, the oil thermostat ”Opens” the bypass when cold and “Closes” the bypass when hot.
Attached Thumbnails
Rebuild, not repeat...spun rod bearing-oil-cooler-lines-1.jpg   Rebuild, not repeat...spun rod bearing-oil-cooler-lines-2.jpg   Rebuild, not repeat...spun rod bearing-oil-cooler-lines-3.jpg   Rebuild, not repeat...spun rod bearing-oil-cooler-lines-4.jpg  
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:15 AM   #25
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My set up has the lines and cooler below the oil filter.

I think my way forward will be a combo oil pressure/temp gauge and install the sandwich plate with a short loop of hose and no cooler until I determine if I really need it.

As for my problem, don't forget the VVT light came on BEFORE the bearing failure. Is there no one who gives credence to a timing/balance related failure?
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:03 PM   #26
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And don't forget that bearing does not always fail in one shot. It is most likely over time special with cold oil. So there is a chance the VVT solenoid was already getting full of metal sludge. You really can't figure out the VVT issue until the engine is back together at 100%.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:14 PM   #27
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Have we nailed down what he's using for engine management? All i've seen is "stock ECU."

Edit: and his intro thread also says nothing about engine management.

If you're running stock ECU with 8 PSI then we know exactly why your engine is screwed. But your build looks very well done so that seems unlikely...
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Have we nailed down what he's using for engine management? All i've seen is "stock ECU."

Edit: and his intro thread also says nothing about engine management.

If you're running stock ECU with 8 PSI then we know exactly why your engine is screwed. But your build looks very well done so that seems unlikely...
I've asked a couple of times, but he is too worried about VVTEES
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:47 PM   #29
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Hey I thought I'd addressed the management question in the OP by stating "stock ECU" I'll add that I am also running a basic Power Card fuel card.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:51 PM   #30
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Well, everyone assumed you were running SOMETHING because you surely shouldn't be surprised that your engine went KABLOOEY running 8 psi on the stock ECU.

Wait, you're surprised, aren't you!
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Rebuild, not repeat...spun rod bearing-well_there__s_your_problem_by_seekerarmada-d5mu26r.jpg  
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:55 PM   #31
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What were your ARFs in boost? Does you oil smell like fuel?

Here is my wild *** guess:
  1. Power card makes it run retarded rich under load
  2. Retarded rich causes fuel to wash past piston rings into crankcase and dilutes oil
  3. Oil never fully heats up so fuel never evaporates/burns off
  4. Dilution continues over time
  5. VVT stops working right because oil is too thin
  6. Oil gets so diluted it stops being oil
  7. Spun bearing
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:00 PM   #32
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So every BRP kit which didn't even come with an IC but did come with the Power Card is destined for bearing failure? NOT
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:02 PM   #33
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NO fuel in oil. Look at the piston top, I don't see the evidence of the wash needed for your scenario.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:02 PM   #34
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No, but yours very well may have.

What's your theory chief?
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:11 PM   #35
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No, but yours very well may have.

What's your theory chief?
Admittedly I don't know **** and i came to all of you to learn. I guess boost is boost but those who are familiar these systems seem to find them reliable.

I don't know for sure why the bearings failed. Whether it was oil only or if other balance/ timing/ fuel contributors are responsible I can't say. I only know that careful reassembly and the addition of monitoring and either eliminating the oil cooler or adding a tstat are the best possibility for success.

BTW I had not thought of the oil cooler as being a problem so thank you all for pointing that out to me.

It will be very disappointing if it becomes necessary to add a MS3 to make my car reliable. At ~170 hp to add that expense and complexity will be discouraging. If I decide to go 200+ hp then that addition will be expected and part of the plan.
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:25 PM   #36
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:36 PM   #37
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So do you have something constructive to say? You think a new computer is the way forward? Something else? Pretty shiny picture boy.
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:47 AM   #38
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So do you have something constructive to say?
Nope. You are doing just fine. Please continue.




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Old 09-20-2014, 01:39 PM   #39
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I'm listening re the ECU issue.

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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
No, but yours very well may have.
Why is mine exclusive?

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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Well, everyone assumed you were running SOMETHING because you surely shouldn't be surprised that your engine went KABLOOEY running 8 psi on the stock ECU.
Can you share your reasoning? Or is this something every other SC owner already knows?
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:53 PM   #40
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Why is mine exclusive?
Because you touch yourself at night?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stigish View Post
Can you share your reasoning? Or is this something every other SC owner already knows?
Has nothing to do with a supercharger or a turbo. Like he said, we knew you were running SOMETHING because the stock ECU cannot take 100+kpa without shitting the bed, but you chose not to give us that detail. We cannot be expected to know the details of every kit on the planet. BRP has been out of business for like a decade, we can't even go to their website and look **** up. We can't help you if you are not going to answer our questions.

One more time:
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
What were your ARFs in boost?
Or is it going to take another 30 posts to get this information out of you like it did about the ECU/powercard?
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