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Old 04-10-2013, 01:52 AM   #1
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Default Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno


There are no frame rate tricks. The spinning or lack there of is exactly what happened. The reason I removed the dipstick was on the previous try sans-camera the smoke switched from the VC to the tube when I removed the stick. This time with the camera it didn't seem to matter.

I have questions.

The turbo to me is obviously shot. It seemed to have some end play, but I'm still learning how much is too much. The fact that it stops spinning abruptly to me, seems bad. Or that it doesn't spin at all on idle.

My first question is, could a failed turbo cause oil to blow out of the crank case?

We did a leak down tester with a POS harbor freight unit that I only 1/2 trust. The readings were fairly consistent @ 30%, but I've read that the # on the HF isn't accurate and to only consider the delta between numbers. TRUE??

We didn't experience any noticable leaks while doing the test. I would have expected @ 30% to be blowing air out the dip stick or someplace. Couldn't find air leaking from valve seals, valves, spark plugs, dip stick tube. This is my first time doing a Leak down test, and am sure there is a "you're doing wrong" in there somewhere.

I'm not opposed to taking the block apart, and re-ringing and new bearings if I have to, but I rather not if I don't have to. As it stands, I'm about to be knee deep in new turbo goodies, and would prefer to not have to re-ring, hone, etc. I don't trust myself to do the bearings on the crank and paid a local shop to assembly the bottom end and would have to do the same thing again.

Side Question: I hate my oil pressure gauge. It's an Autometer POS. Anyone have any good recommendations??
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:23 AM   #2
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Stock is a great oil pressure gauge.

I'd rebuild the turbo for $100 and go from there. gopopshop.com will have your rebuild kit.

Its possible that's all it is, but probably not.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:18 AM   #3
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Is that the first time running it after installing the turob and manifold?
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:47 AM   #4
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I'm also curious how long you've been running the turbo and if you pressurized the crankcase and blew all your engine seals and your rings.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:24 AM   #5
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cuase one thing's for sure, if you keep dripping oil on the manifold like that, it's going to keep smoking until it all burns off...
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:28 AM   #6
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2004 MSM built bottom end, stock head, stock turbo, stock exhaust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Stock is a great oil pressure gauge.
I'd rebuild the turbo for $100 and go from there. gopopshop.com will have your rebuild kit.
Its possible that's all it is, but probably not.
Stock NB gauge is go/no gauge. Worthless.
MSM IHI's aren't rebuildable to my knowledge.

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Is that the first time running it after installing the turob and manifold?
No, car has plenty of miles on it since the build.

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Originally Posted by AlexL View Post
I'm also curious how long you've been running the turbo and if you pressurized the crankcase and blew all your engine seals and your rings.
I think this is most likely, but the car ran pretty good after the build. Pulled hard. Long story short, the cat was clogged when I tried to do the vacuum pulls to seat the rings. I'm wondering if this is part of the leaktest results.

The smoke in video is from the VC, the manifold wasn't hot enough to smoke. I originally started the car to find the source of the oil leak (had oil everywhere) but when I saw it billowing out of the VC I stopped looking...
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:37 AM   #7
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well, you need new rings for sure
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
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well, you need new rings for sure
This is what I suspect as well, but where the hell is the air going during the leakdown? There is no air coming out of the dipstick... Wait, if the turbo is busted, is it possible for it go back out the turbo drain? That's certainly not the path of least resistance. I'll do a leak down again tonight, and see if it's coming out of the turbo. Given the current condition of the engine, I can't imagine warming back up is going to hurt it.

The leakdown results is really where I'm getting confused. I thought it would be more conclusive.

Also, any confirmation about the HF tool. Is the more about the delta between cylinders and less about the actual number that tool gives you?
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:47 PM   #9
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If you're crap tune burned up the exhaust valves, the leakdown could potentially be making it out to the exhaust housing.

Yes, any leakdown/compression tool is more about the delta between cylinders. Unless say you're compression was 130-140 across all cylinders vs a spec of 200-210, you might have something to worry about.


My suggestion is to get it running and leave it somewhere with the keys in it.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:12 PM   #10
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Engine: Blown the **** up
Turbo: Blown the **** up
30% leak x 4: Blown the **** up
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveOffRamps View Post
We didn't experience any noticable leaks while doing the test. I would have expected @ 30% to be blowing air out the dip stick or someplace. Couldn't find air leaking from valve seals, valves, spark plugs, dip stick tube. This is my first time doing a Leak down test, and am sure there is a "you're doing wrong" in there somewhere.
Don't bother with a leakdown. I've never in my life seen that much blowby from the valve cover breather, and that includes engines with literal holes in pistons. Your motor is trashed. Please post the carnage photos when you disassemble the shortblock.

Quote:
I'm not opposed to taking the block apart, and re-ringing and new bearings if I have to, but I rather not if I don't have to.
You have to. To be honest, I'd be really, really surprised if a re-ring solves your issues. That looks like major internal damage, either broken ringlands or holed pistons.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:36 PM   #12
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That kind of blow by is "holes".
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:36 PM   #13
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Pulled the head last night. No visible carnage yet. Obviously can't see the ring lands. The pistons look off center in the bores though. Head looks fine. Just a tad rich also. Won't be able to pull the bottom end until next week.
Attached Thumbnails
Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-20130411_015025_resize.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-20130411_014936_resize.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-20130411_014851_resize.jpg  
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #14
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looks like you had DET on cly#4.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:59 PM   #15
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Take some close-up macro-mode shots of each cylinder on the head.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:33 AM   #16
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Uploaded the images in their original format. About as close as i can get with that lens. Front of engine is labeled as 1.








Attached Thumbnails
Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_piston4_zpsef2341f1.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_piston3_zps20a0c821.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_piston2_zps1bc28153.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_piston1_zps79c52858.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_head4_zps52716740.jpg  

Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_head3_zps533b581e.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_head2_zps45fb9cce.jpg   Smoke from VC and Turbo no bueno-th_head1_zpsf871f391.jpg  
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:30 PM   #17
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It could just be the photos, but I see detonation in the head and pistons.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:56 PM   #18
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Could you teach a noob what you see and why you think that? I see way too much carbon and that's about it. Oh, and an interesting pattern of deposits on the bottom of the valves.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveOffRamps View Post
Could you teach a noob what you see and why you think that? I see way too much carbon and that's about it. Oh, and an interesting pattern of deposits on the bottom of the valves.
Carbon build-up is normal and you shouldn't be alarmed by it. There is less carbon on you pistons and head than the 10k mile VVT engines I put in the track car.

This swirl pattern Is a good indicator for uneven flame propagation which is bad and usually the precursor for severe detonation. I can't see much else because your photos are too small. Try posting photos like a normal person.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:12 AM   #20
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I uploaded the original full size 3K X 2K picture. I'm not sure what happened. I'll fix it when I get back in town (said IloveOfframps)
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