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Old 02-28-2011, 10:41 PM   #1
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Default Source for titanium or inconel valves?

Anyone know of a manufacturer that has off the shelf inconel exhaust valves or even titanium valves? I suspect they would have to be custom made no matter the manufacturer.
Talked to supertech and titanium valves 80-90 a piece and would require 3 complete sets. Inconel would be $50 a piece and require a run of 50.
$2500 to $4500 is a steep even for me as I doubt I could unload the other sets
I'll still talk to Ferrea, Manley and a few others.
Any thoughts?
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:52 PM   #2
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Im just curious to know why you even think you need something like this
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:56 PM   #3
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$800 for a set of valves is "HOLY ****"

may I ask "Why?"
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:41 AM   #4
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Hmm, people on this board are so cheap.
Titanium valves simply add lightness to the valvetrain making high rpm operation more reliable. I would like to have the option of spinning the motor to 8.5K or 9K to lengthen out the area between shifts etc.
I mean titanium valves are hardly that uncommon in most racing fields. A few cars like the Z06 come stock with them.
Titanium and inconel are much less likely to damaged by excessive egts
now is it worth 1500 for a set of valves to me maybe not, but doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. I currently have a setup with pretty big cams and am considering eventually going to a gtx3076 or gt35 provided it proves to be doable.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:50 AM   #5
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Now some call me crazy for my ideas and sending a lot of money on parts...but this? Comeon' man. Spend your money elsewhere
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:55 AM   #6
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why?

Ferrea will make anything you want for a price.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersoze View Post
Hmm, people on this board are so cheap.
Titanium valves simply add lightness to the valvetrain making high rpm operation more reliable. I would like to have the option of spinning the motor to 8.5K or 9K to lengthen out the area between shifts etc.
I mean titanium valves are hardly that uncommon in most racing fields. A few cars like the Z06 come stock with them.
Titanium and inconel are much less likely to damaged by excessive egts
now is it worth 1500 for a set of valves to me maybe not, but doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. I currently have a setup with pretty big cams and am considering eventually going to a gtx3076 or gt35 provided it proves to be doable.
There is a difference between being cheap, and buying excessive parts. Sure, it's a bit lighter. But the $/HP is not worth it. Better places to spend your money.

The excuse for high RPMs is silly. Plenty of miatas are running over 8500RPM with SS valves. Any more, and there are many more things you need to do to the block to be able to sustain those RPMS. If you're building a 13000RPM screamer, then go for it. 8000-9000RPM, don't bother.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:38 AM   #8
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I think you need to double check your research on actually using them. I talked to my machinist about this and he was adamant that it was a very bad idea. From what he says, Ti takes some very special treatments and machining to keep it from self destructing. Using leaded gas prevents a lot of those problems in full blown race cars, but are you really going to run leaded race gas exclusively? And honestly, the benefits of Ti over SS are minimal.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baron340 View Post
I think you need to double check your research on actually using them. I talked to my machinist about this and he was adamant that it was a very bad idea. From what he says, Ti takes some very special treatments and machining to keep it from self destructing. Using leaded gas prevents a lot of those problems in full blown race cars, but are you really going to run leaded race gas exclusively? And honestly, the benefits of Ti over SS are minimal.
I don't think this is true anymore. Most manufacturers use coatings like chromium nitride or titanium nitride that have solved most of the wear problems titanium has(hell chevy warranties the Z06 and ZR1 engines for like 100K or somthing), I don't think lead had anything to do with it but I could be wrong. As for the gains, if you keep a standard redline then maybe the gains are minimal. If you have a higher revving motor you get much better control of your valve train. Less valve float, less valve spring pressure needed(hence more HP)less wear on the valve guides and seats. If I was building a DD then I probably wouldn't consider it but for a track car seeing elevated rpms it might be worth it to me.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:06 PM   #10
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Manley told me they could do a miata valve in inconel, I believe from the same blanks as the subaru valve. I run them in my subaru cause they were cheaper than the OEM subaru sodium filled jobbies, but obviously HEAVY compared. So I also run their springs and ti retainers.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:14 PM   #11
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:31 PM   #12
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Hmm... well maybe go for it then. But I still don't think Ti will give you enough benefit to justify the cost even on a fully built race car seeing high revs. Proper spring rates and a quality set of SS valves will work just as well, even though it may be just a little heavier. But, I'm in to see the results either way.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:22 AM   #13
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What are your power goals? Please say 600hp that would make me happy. I don't think this is necessary to rev to 8500.

This is what I think is:

Billet pump gears
Valve springs
Hutzpah?
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:54 AM   #14
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FM says that there valve spring kit is good for 9k with no valve float.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:16 AM   #15
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So are OEM BP springs with enough lift on the cams.

Buying Ti valves because you don't want "float" is a silly excuse.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:45 AM   #16
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Titanium readily reacts with oxygen at 1,200 C (2,190 F) in air, and at 610 C (1,130 F) in pure oxygen google burning titanium

its not the uber stable **** you want in high temp situations yeah its strong but it can oxidize rapidly ie burn.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:16 AM   #17
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Damn people on this board really can't stand any thinking even a little outside their box. I am sure if I offered any of you a set of titanium valves for your head build for free you would say no? cue lame joke about selling them and buying SS.
I wasn't asking for a referrendum on whether you liked the price/performance of these valves. There are obviously benefits of using different materials for valves. Just because some one else says that cheap stuff is "good enough" isn't a good reason for me to choose something.
Anyway I've chatted with a few people and discussed Ti vs hollow stem SS for intake and Ti vs inconel vs sodium filled for exhaust and we'll see how it shakes out.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:39 AM   #18
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I would run them. Sure. Just won't spend money on them when there are more logical choices out there for even the most extreme of builds we tend to see on here.

I'm happy with my SS valves since they were inexpensive, larger than stock and meet the criteria for what I want out of my valvetrain.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:05 AM   #19
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Hey, prove your point about how awesome they are by giving me the free set. I swear I'll be converted.

Free inconel/Ti > stock. I'm totally with you.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:16 PM   #20
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I'm not saying not to run them either, there are more supporting mods that need to be done for a high rpm motor that are expensive and should also be considered, like an intake manifold, with out some type of modified intake our engines are worthless at high rpm. By the way How is yours working out nagase?
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