Source for titanium or inconel valves? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-02-2011, 12:52 PM   #21
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 228
Total Cats: 5
Default

Find the right price point on some lightweight valves, and I would be up for a set in the screamer I am building. I have been considering titanium myself. I know the benefits, even tho this forum seems close minded to what the race world knows.
Alta_Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 12:53 PM   #22
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
Titanium readily reacts with oxygen at 1,200 C (2,190 F) in air, and at 610 C (1,130 F) in pure oxygen google burning titanium

its not the uber stable **** you want in high temp situations yeah its strong but it can oxidize rapidly ie burn.
so does steel. we're all fucked.

y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 02:24 PM   #23
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
so does steel. we're all fucked.

dammit y8's i was trying to cause panic way to nulify the situation
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 02:52 PM   #24
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

I will add to this thread and say that I have burned Supertech stainless valves twice where it looked like I went at them with a blow torch.

On the other hand with a motor with stock Mazda 323 GTR sodium filled exhaust valves I have melted Wiseco Pistons and the valves were fine.

Bob
Attached Thumbnails
Source for titanium or inconel valves?-dscn0247.jpg  
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 03:27 PM   #25
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

You and Hustler are the gods of miata destruction.
Perses has nothing on you two.
I bow before your awesome destructive power.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 07:29 PM   #26
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,895
Total Cats: 109
Default

Titanium valves will make more power than stainless valves period. It is for the same reason shim under buckets make more power. If I had the money to do it, I would already have them in my motor.

Getting the valves will not be a problem either. It is no different than specing a piston for your application. You just have to be willing to pay the price. I recall it being like 3 or more times the price of stainless. I can't remember.

I will warn however that they are a little bit more fragile than stainless. Nitrous guys are often advised to run them on the intake side only. I have no idea if that would be the case with other forced induction methods. You may want to consult with the manufacturer and tell them what kind of set up and racing you will do.

If I recall, they need to be replaced more often, and maybe the reason alot of forced induction guys do not use them. I can not recall all of the facts regarding them. It was a long time ago when I considered using them in my small block motor.
miata2fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 07:33 PM   #27
MT Pony Underground
iTrader: (6)
 
Nagase's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,811
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
I will add to this thread and say that I have burned Supertech stainless valves twice where it looked like I went at them with a blow torch.

On the other hand with a motor with stock Mazda 323 GTR sodium filled exhaust valves I have melted Wiseco Pistons and the valves were fine.

Bob
Can you get the sodium filled ones for relatively cheap? I assume they're simply a Mazda part to order. I wonder if they come in +1 anywhere.
Nagase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 12:01 PM   #28
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I need more details on fancy exhaust valves. Who can get the Inco valves? I want the longest life possible.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 02:16 PM   #29
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 228
Total Cats: 5
Default

You may also want to look at better seats. My head porter talks a lot about the seat materials removing heat from the valves. Copper Berillium (sp) comes to mind.
Alta_Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 04:23 PM   #30
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,524
Total Cats: 27
Default

Valves? **** valves! Welcome to the future.

Attached Thumbnails
Source for titanium or inconel valves?-funny-transportation-vehicles-28.jpg  
flounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 04:28 PM   #31
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 397
Total Cats: 9
Default

Yeah there are two potential areas of improvement a more heat resistant valve material and conducting more heat away from the valve. Copper beryllium vavle guides and seats are much better heat conductors than iron, that is why they are used for titanium valves(which dissipate heat very poorly but are light and strong). The only problem is copper beryllium is much softer than iron and so may not last as long. I am not sure but some of the newer sintered metal valve seats may transfer heat better than the cast iron seats that I think are standard on miata heads.

As for valves I looked at different exhaust valve materials-supertech will make you inconel valves for about $30 per valve but they have a minimum run of 50 per size.
Ferrea was a bit more expensive.
Manley I think has their extreme duty valves in inconel. Their severe duty valves have more heat resistance than the typical 21-4N stainless that supertech uses.
Flyin miata sells inconel valves that are relatively cheap now-I don't know who makes them.
kaisersoze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 02:03 PM   #32
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I need more details on fancy exhaust valves. Who can get the Inco valves? I want the longest life possible.
I noticed this On FM's site a while back.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...5%20%201990-93

Note: I have burned exhaust valves twice with FM built motors These showed up just after I last rebuilt my motor. I suspect exhaust valves are the weak link in my motor now.

In my opinion the standard replacement valves Spartech etc. are inadequate for track driven cars over 300hp. The picture on FM’s site of a bad exhaust valve is of the fancy black nitrided stainless valve with burned pits in the seat. I actually think stock valves might be better than these.

I have a set of 323 GTR sodium filled valves but they are not oversized and I haven’t put them in anything yet. I bet they would be as good as Inconel.

Bob
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 02:11 PM   #33
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
I have a set of 323 GTR sodium filled valves but they are not oversized and I havent put them in anything yet. I bet they would be as good as Inconel.

Bob
I bet they would be significantly better. Sodium valves are typically $60-70/ea from OEMs, whereas you can get Inconel on the aftermarket for $30.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 02:17 PM   #34
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SFL
Posts: 376
Total Cats: 3
Default

the sodium valves where developed when mazda had a full on rally program, id agree with Savington that they are the superior choice.

also the SR20DET sodium exhaust valves are supposedly a drop in solution for the BP. (I have not confirmed this)
MD323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 03:26 PM   #35
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Could you bore the stem of a stainless valve and replace it with sodium? that'd be awesome.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 03:58 PM   #36
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

Were the sodium valves only for the 1.8l? also will valves for the 1.8l interchange with the 1.6l?
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 04:24 PM   #37
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SFL
Posts: 376
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techsalvager View Post
Were the sodium valves only for the 1.8l? also will valves for the 1.8l interchange with the 1.6l?
only for 1.8L GTR motor, dont know if they swap in the 1.6
MD323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 06:11 PM   #38
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD323 View Post
only for 1.8L GTR motor, dont know if they swap in the 1.6
They Won't fit a 1.6l

I will say I've melted down forged pistons in a GTR powered GTX a couple times now and the exhaust valves stayed fine. Don’t ask me why the original owner ditched the GTR pistons. The GTR pistons are the only ones that were actually designed to utilize the oil squirters as they had an internal galley that channeled the oil squirter oil through the piston to pull heat from the upper ring land area instead of just the bottom of the piston. The GTR pistons were actually two materials as well. The ring land portion was cast Iron and somewhat impervious to wear or extreme abuse.

Bob

Last edited by bbundy; 10-10-2011 at 06:22 PM.
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 06:23 PM   #39
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SFL
Posts: 376
Total Cats: 3
Default

Some much swaps between the 2 I wasn't sure but good to know.

Yeah the GTR motor was beefy for what it was, too bad mazda never applied that tech to any other BP.
MD323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 02:54 PM   #40
hrk
Junior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 335
Total Cats: 2
Default

I am getting closer to choose the exhaust valves for the new motor.
Has anyone had experience from Sodium valves or Inconel valves since last years discussion?

hrk
~1500 lbs locost with 300 hp engine being built for track.
hrk is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
91 1.6l turbo complete part out. Tony the Tiger Miata parts for sale/trade 63 12-29-2016 03:23 AM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
NEW-Wiseco Piston, K1 Rods, Supertech Valves & Spring/Retainer, TB&C pedals Rudes333 Miata parts for sale/trade 17 11-05-2015 02:16 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:49 AM.